Student Tasered for not showing his ID

[GUNWOUNDS]

Hehe, actually, if a crook has a gun, the policemen have to send an application ( to the authorities; their authorities... ) to ask if they can use a gun. In the meantime, a gun desperado, for instance, is held up by verbal communication ( or whatever way possible ), mostly. I don't know if people are just very nice in Norway, but it is very uncommon for police to be shot...

And don't twist the meaning of my words, Gunwounds... By saying 'feel safe', I mean the safest you can get. I don't think Americans are any safer than Norwegians even though your law enforcers are equipped with deadlier tools.

Most criminals in Norway can be dealt with using hand cuffs. The rest, which are very, very few, require some more violent action, but we don't let those few let the rest be mistreated.

Also, I find it interesting that you made the reference to cattle when describing the taser. Just because tasing a cattle makes it go away, doesn't mean that a human will act the same way. I don't know, but in Norway, humans don't walk around on all four eating grass either, so we are very unlike cattle in our behavior.

I've seen that, and I believe that policeman should be extremely happy that he isn't Norwegian at least... ( Although I think it's very amusing to watch. :P )

Ok i see .... but that just seems like alot of red tape to me... just to take down an armed crook. 

However not all cops are stronger than their thugs they are trying to subdue.  So they do need "tools" to help them.

Check this out

American Cop gets beatup  (Good reason to have pepperspray and taser...and even gun)

European cops get beat up ...bet they wish they had tasers, pepper spray, or rubber bullets.

...this is just sad

British cops with no weapons resort to hitting car with batons...sad.

Also i recently saw a video where a cop  was attempting to arrest a prize fighter.  The prize fighter turned around and starting beating the crap out of the officer.  The Officer peppersprayed him but the guy laughed and said you'll need more than that.  After taking a beating on the ground for over 10 minutes the cop drew his gun and shot the man in the abdomen.  This slowed the man down but he still continued to fight.  The cop was going to fire again but his gun jammed.  The cop finally pistol whipped him and got away to call for backup.  That video is graphic so i wont post it here but i will PM it to people who want to see it.

With stories like this its no wonder that cops assume worst case scenario.  You never know if your next traffic stop is going to be your death.  Therefore cops may "take themselves too seriously" but i feel they have every right to.  They're the ones putting their lives on the line... not you.

[Anathema]

i understand you can tackle many cases with retraining moves, handcuffs, and batons... but what do you do in the more severe cases?

That's the point. This was not a severe case.

Of course you're an idiot if you're inviting problems, like this student. That doesn't mean the way the officers handled the case was the right way to go about it. Their conduct was wholly unprofessional.

Still, I don't expect you to agree with me. Let's just wait what the court has to say on this.

[GUNWOUNDS]

That's the point. This was not a severe case.

Of course you're an idiot if you're inviting problems, like this student. That doesn't mean the way the officers handled the case was the right way to go about it. Their conduct was wholly unprofessional.

Still, I don't expect you to agree with me. Let's just wait what the court has to say on this.

I understand what you are saying.  Although you said they werent professional.... BUT... i didnt see them say anything unprofessional or strike him with fists or put him in a choke hold.

The cops said:

Stand up

Stand up

Stand up or you will be tased again

Stand Up

STAND UP

STAND UP NOW

Stop fighting us

Stop fighting us

We are going to tase you again if you dont stand up.

Stand up

Stand up

Stand up

They seemed to be talking to him in a civil manner.  But I agree that he wasnt a threat since he was just a student.  BUT THE COPS DIDNT KNOW THAT.  You are judging the cops' action and saying it wasnt a severe case based off of 20/20 hindsight.  Thats not right.  For all they knew he could have been packing heat or a blade.

[Cyborg]

Haha, Guns, I see the idiocy in the clip with British police trying to beat a car with batons.  :P ( What the hell, are they too weak to break the windows with batons? )

They were clearly applying the wrong method in the case. Only in the end, when they drove that police car up the ass of the suspect, they got control.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Oh and a cop has commented on the youtube video

quote:

"I've been tazed as part of training. One pull of the trigger gives you a 5 second taze unless you hold onto the trigger. Once the tazing is done, you are able to get up just like nothing happened. When they told him to stand up, he had the ability to stand up. Unless absolutely necessary, I wouldn't want to have to carry the guy and risk throwing out my back. All the guy had to do was get up and walk out with the cops."

[GUNWOUNDS]

Cop uses Human Taser on Dog ... Dog falls down jumps up instantly and runs off.

Guy Gets tased... gets up in 10 seconds

Man gets tased in chair and is told to stand up... he stands up immediately, raises his hands in the air, and then lays on the ground as instructed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02pSff8dI1M&mode=related&search=

Drunk man gets tasered  FIVE times  and is STILL able to stand to attack an officer.  Only after the FIFTH taser is he subdued.

SO MUCH for the bullsh!t claims of "Oh my legs are disabled... waaa waaa" ....or.... "you cant taser someone repeatedly"   The taser is only disabling when current is flowing thru you and a few seconds afterwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo18vb9Aj1E&NR

Cop gets tased....He is on the ground for a few seconds... then he gets up fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAKbplNGhDo&mode=related&search=

Woman gets tased... after she is handcuffed and is told to stand up ... she stands up just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA8fD6YvyJk&mode=related&search=

Reporter gets tased in a test.... stands up easily.

Now all of the examples you have seen so far have been the shooting function.   The drive stun function is what was used on this student.... its MUCH weaker.  Look at this video to see how its not that bad.

Drive Stun :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmvtVLZrVoo&mode=related&search=

Teenage girl gets tased (Drive Stun), and stands up laughing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJzMTGpUhfI&mode=related&search=

All in all i guess i would have to get tased before i will truly know... but so far what i have seen doesnt convince me that the taser is brutal or extremely incapacitating.  I think there is just alot of drama queens and bullsh!t cop haters.

Case Closed for me.

Laters

Gun

[Cyborg]

I'll tase your balls any day, Guns. ;)

[VigilVirus]

Same goes for cops.... you give them a hard time and they'll give you a hard time.  Its just ignorant to push it.  Pissing off a cop is like pissing off your mechanic before he services your car or pissing off your waiter before he prepares your food. The only reason people disobey cops and disrespect them is because its the "young and trendy" thing to do and because this country is so litigious that you can sue for anything.

Like I mentioned in the thread that you quoted, they are the campus police. It's their job to deal with students. Judging from the video you posted of a cop beating up a guy with a baton after getting flicked off, you believe that to be acceptable behavior. Apparently, in your mind, cops are supposed to be intolerant, aggressive and prone to violence at the slightest hint of provocation. That's bullshit. I don't want cops like that, and I'm sure many would agree with me. It's pretty easy to determine if someone is a threat - and someone lying prone on the ground after getting tasered isn't one.

Cops deal with people, not dogs or cattle. People shouldn't be cattle prodded when they don't move along at the required pace. Oh, but I guess it's immature to believe that cops should be held to a higher standard than a guy in a drunken bar fight. It's their job, they knew what they signed up for and they chose to do it. If you make a choice for a career as a policeman, you must have patience, be polite, follow the job requirements and regulations. I don't believe that beating the shit out of every impolite suspect because they may or may not be a threat is part of that.

[GUNWOUNDS]

I'll tase your balls any day, Guns. ;)

hehehe... well maybe not there.... they say steel is a good conductor.

Like I mentioned in the thread that you quoted, they are the campus police. It's their job to deal with students. Judging from the video you posted of a cop beating up a guy with a baton after getting flicked off, you believe that to be acceptable behavior. Apparently, in your mind, cops are supposed to be intolerant, aggressive and prone to violence at the slightest hint of provocation. That's bullshit. I don't want cops like that, and I'm sure many would agree with me. It's pretty easy to determine if someone is a threat - and someone lying prone on the ground after getting tasered isn't one.

Cops deal with people, not dogs or cattle. People shouldn't be cattle prodded when they don't move along at the required pace. Oh, but I guess it's immature to believe that cops should be held to a higher standard than a guy in a drunken bar fight. It's their job, they knew what they signed up for and they chose to do it. If you make a choice for a career as a policeman, you must have patience, be polite, follow the job requirements and regulations. I don't believe that beating the shit out of every impolite suspect because they may or may not be a threat is part of that.

Cops have egos too, they are human, they get angry, they get paranoid, they wonder if someone running up to them and flicking them off is just a prelude to them getting jumped by 5 other guys.

Cops are people too... they will react to threats just like anyone else.   Expecting every cop to be Jesus Christ is unreasonable.  Cops should be respected  (with a little pinch of fear mixed in) to keep the riff raff in check. 

And yes i want my cops to be badasses.  I dont want pussy cops that let people walk all over them and harass them.  It sends a bad message to others.  What if cops allow people to disrespect them constantly.  Then it will become common faire to flick cops off, yell obscenities at them, or even pull pranks on them.  This will only lead to an escalation that eventually leads someone to cross the line.  What is the magical line?  Cops out on the street can't allow themselves to be perceived as weak.  because if they do, sh!t like this will happen day in and day out.

If someone is attacking me, i want the guy to be so scared of the police that as soon as he hears the cop yell "GET ON THE GROUND NOW" that he stops immediately and falls to the ground due to fear of being shot or tased.  I dont want the guy to have NO fear of the police and just keep attacking me because he knows the cop wont tase or shoot him or because he thinks cops are jokes in general. F-that.

Guns

[GUNWOUNDS]

If you make a choice for a career as a policeman, you must have patience, be polite, follow the job requirements and regulations. I don't believe that beating the shit out of every impolite suspect because they may or may not be a threat is part of that.

They make a pauper's salary of  24k - 36k per year.  That not enough money to recruit the best and brightest and most wonderful people who have master's degrees in psychology & sociology.  You are going to get normal people recruited into the job and you must remember that, expecting anything else is naive.

[VigilVirus]

They make a pauper's salary of  24k - 36k per year.  That not enough money to recruit the best and brightest and most wonderful people who have master's degrees in psychology & sociology.  You are going to get normal people recruited into the job and you must remember that, expecting anything else is naive.

You don't need a degree to be able to apply common sense to situations and recognize threats - you just need police training. It doesn't matter how dumb they are, it was their choice to pursue this career and they should be held accountable for their actions if they are out of line.

And I'm not saying that police should not be able to use physical force when the situation calls for it. I'm saying they should not assume that it calls for it before they have a chance to evaluate the situation (there are many telltale signs, that I have no doubts cops are trained to detect). If someone disrespects a cop, a stern warning would be appropriate, or threat of arrest. Lashing out with a baton at someone who flicked you off, however, is immature and out of line.

[GUNWOUNDS]

You don't need a degree to be able to apply common sense to situations and recognize threats - you just need police training. It doesn't matter how dumb they are, it was their choice to pursue this career and they should be held accountable for their actions if they are out of line.

And I'm not saying that police should not be able to use physical force when the situation calls for it. I'm saying they should not assume that it calls for it before they have a chance to evaluate the situation (there are many telltale signs, that I have no doubts cops are trained to detect). If someone disrespects a cop, a stern warning would be appropriate, or threat of arrest. Lashing out with a baton at someone who flicked you off, however, is immature and out of line.

But thats all speculation.  You dont know if a cop has acted before evaluating a situation, because you're not there in that instant.  And no amount of second hand video footage can give you a clear picture either.  Someone approaches you in a hostile matter (whether joke or genuine) their training tells them to think worst-case scenario, their heart starts pounding, and people can turn on you in an instant, check the video where the black man is seemingly docile and then opens a can of whoop-ass on the cop.  So if you know that a cop is trained to think in worst-case scenario and you attempt to trigger a response from them, i think you deserve what you get.

yes cops should be held responsible for abuse, and i have seen videos where cops blantantly abused someone... such as a cop setting a vicious k-9 unit onto an old woman protesting and her getting bitten.  Yes idiot cops deserve to be fired for that.  But the matter is largely subjective.  The woman getting bitten by the K-9 unit evoked sympathy from me.  However the student getting tased or the guy getting whacked with a baton for flicking off the cop does not evoke sympathy from me.  So i agree that cops shouldnt abuse people... but different situations will evoke sympathy ... and others wont. And ultimately its up to a Judge and Jury to decide.

Guns

[GUNWOUNDS]

Another video where teenagers are shocking each other for fun.  In this video the Drive Stun feature is being used.... not the shooting barbs.  As you can see from this video the Drive Stun feature is much weaker as many of the teenagers in this video dont even fall down.

Its clear that the shooting barbs are much more effective at disabling people.  But even with the shooting barbs people are able to get up easily.  As shown in this video the Drive Stun feature isnt strong enough to make some people fall down.

Yes some people can actually take a Drive Stun taser shot and stay standing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFFscPSP-qo&mode=related&search=

I dont think the student in question is gonna get any cash after reviewing all of these videos.  The taser gun is WAY overhyped. A jury will see thru all the hype and realize that a taser gun isnt some brutal weapon.  We live in a world of wimps.

Guns

[Dunenewt]

European cops get beat up ...bet they wish they had tasers, pepper spray, or rubber bullets.

Yet again you show your ignorance.  British Police have pepper spray, rubber bullets, and tasers, and what more, we have water cannons and many other non-lethal weapons.  We British have much more experience in these matters than USA from dealing with problems in Northern Ireland.

Teen dies after being shot by stun gun

Very interesting reading!  Electrical stun weapons: alternative to lethal force or a compliance tool?, University of Bradford, UK.

The 1990 UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials state that enforcement officials, in carrying out their duty, shall, as far as possible, apply non-violent means before resorting to the use of force and firearms.

[Dunenewt]

I have an uncle who is a cop you cocky little twirp. 

And I've got many friends in the police, and many more who are applying, as I help with the security in a major retail shop, so I know a lot about the law, and respecting it.

I dont know how cops are in England,

They're a lot cleverer, and more respectful than the US cops from what I've seen.

but in America they can ticket you for disrespecting an officer.

Yeah, they can do that here as well, but it seems the powertrip is more common amongst the American Police than it is amongst British police, with our stiff upper lip y'know.

I have had many a speeding tickets i had to pay,

You obviously don't learn then. Stop speeding, or learn where the speed cameras are (do you have such things over there?)

so i have been in courtrooms and the judges act like they are God.

Judges and Police are different things.  Judges can punish Police, you're getting two things mixed up here.

One judge told a man to tuck in his shirt or he would give him a higher fine. 

I'm not quite sure if you're actually making a point here...

They have the power so you're a dumbass to give them a reason to abuse it.  They're human after all. They get angry, they have egos like the rest of us.

Like I said, Judges and Police are different, but regardless, Police should take their egos out of the equation.  British Police are selected on their ability to do this as part of the application process, as Police are supposed to be role models to society, not "just like the rest of us".

Dont patronize me as if i dont know about cops. 

Same goes back to you.

I'm trying to be lighthearted by posting funny videos and stuff because ....similar to political cartoons..... humor usually gets the point across better than anything else.

And we're debating serious issues right now, with strong emotions being raised.

You're acting like a little brat who thinks its cool to "hate the police".

Actually, no, I've never hated the Police, and stated before, I work with them quite often.  I am thankful to them for providing a safe neighbourhood for me to live in.

I use to be that way when i was an adolescent as well.

But you still get speeding tickets?  Learn to obey the rules and respect authority.

I use to think that it was fun to make fun of cops and disobey them.  Then i grew up.  You'll realize that too once you shed off your childish immaturity.

Now this point is just flaming, and has been rendered irrelevant already by my previous statements

The guy wasnt in extreme pain or disabled...

He wasn't disabled, but the object of the taser is to cause extreme pain.

the officers get shocked by the taser themselves...

From aforementioned article...

Secondary injuries to the head and other parts of the body have occurred since the victim falls to the ground once shocked. Often this fall will be on a hard surface such as a road or pavement, a far cry from the controlled conditions under which some police officers have volunteered to experience a Taser shock (with two officers supporting them under each arm and a safety mat on the floor). The barbs can leave small cuts and burn marks on the skin but worse injuries can result if they hit sensitive areas of the body such as the eye, mouth, neck and groin.

it stuns you but then after a minute you're ok.

Wrong, paralysis can last up to 10 minutes.

And the police said he left the station walking out as if nothing happened.

Yeah, after how long though?

And no i wouldnt have kicked up a fuss.  I would have let the officer put his hand on my shoulder and lead me out.  I wouldnt have screamed like a little twat and pissed off someone in an authority position.

No, because being as clever as you are, you wouldn't have forgotten your library card.

  You're an idiot if you push someone that far...

Yeah, I have to say you're right there, the cop was stupid to push that student so far. 

From another website:

Our self defense instructors have attended CLEET training where we've repeatedly "zapped" each other with various brands and models of "stun guns". The effects?

Being "zapped" by a stun gun just made us MAD!

And that's very likely what will happen if you use a stun gun on an assailant...just make them very mad.

We've been zapped on bare skin and through clothes. We've been zapped on various body parts, including on the neck at the base of the skull. We've been zapped for a second, and for five seconds, and for longer.

We've seen a defensive tactics instructor zapped on bare skin on the neck, continuously, for over a minute, with the most powerful "stun gun" the state training center could find, while fighting an opponent. The effect? It made him EXTREMELY ANGRY. It actually caused him to fight harder because of the pain.

unless you are just trying to get some cash which this guy likely wanted.

If this happened to me, I'd want compensation.

  Also YOU WERENT THERE... the cops were 2 inches form this guy... you watched it all happened on a damn phone video... your perspective is worthless.

Well, therefore so is yours.

That guy protesting was a complete f*cktard, and he deserved to get alot more... some pepperspray and a few baton smacks along with the taser woulda straightened his ass out.  NO COLLEGE SENIOR should EVER act like that.  Those cops basically gave him the beating his parents should have given him 8 years ago.

What are you are advocating is effectively torture.  All they had to do was handcuff him and take him away.  Doesn't take a genius to work that out.  Maddox is funny, but I wouldn't apply his thoughts to real life I'm afraid.

  That student is a disgrace to his University should be kicked out of school for acting like that.

The students were protesting against the Police afterwards, and in great numbers.

  Screaming F-You and PATRIOT ACT!1

So people are not allowed to protest under the American Demo(n)cracy?

to law enforcement trying to do their jobs and get back home to their wives and children,

I'm sure they knew what the job entailed when they signed up.

just shows that this guy is immature, daff, and someone who most likely wont fit in at any workplace he tries to get employed at.

Why exactly?  Because he was of middle-eastern origin?  Because he complained about being repeatedly hurt?  Because he felt he was being unfairly treated, therefore protested?  I'm sorry, I don't think you quite understand that that guy has rights too.

  If he has such a problem with authority figures now, wait till he gets into the workforce.  This guy is a future train wreck waiting to happen.

When authority is wrong, people have to stand up to it.  Man, those French resistance fighters should have just listened to authority and just helped the Nazis in World War II.  Those Danish people should have respected the authority in World War II and just handed over the Jews.  Those Kurds should have just not been nice to the authorities under Saddam, then they wouldn't have been gassed, which is evidently something you advocate, no?

p.s.- Newt you're the best damn flamebaiter this board has you know that  ;)

I'm opinionated, so are you.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Got back from thanksgiving vacation, i sifted quickly thru the plethora of retorts but didnt see anything of value, especially in response to all of the videos showing teenage girls and kids shocking each other...as well as highway officers shocking someone 5 times.... and not having any serious disabling effects which was the crux of this argument.  You stated that someone died... well the autopsy is still pending. You said that the taser is degrading and painful... well no sh!t but the crux of this arguement is whether the student who got tasered was disabled and unable to comply for the police.

Earlier in this thread you clearly stated :

"But Gunwounds you cant deny this -->  THE TASER DISABLED HIS LEGS AND HE COULDNT COMPLY!1!1!1!"

The numerous videos i offered up as proof have solidified my claims that the taser is over-hyped, and that the aforementioned student could clearly have complied and was being a simple

run-of-the-mill assh0le.  You can try to drown the forum in hundreds of dissection-style replies but its quality not quantity. Stick to the point and dont post 100 BS replies to stuff nobody cares about. 20 replies about me getting speeding tickets was really dumb.  You're cooler than that man. 

And i have said before... I'm not here to lick the police's nutsack and defend the taser.  I understand there are bad cops... I felt sympathy for the old lady who got bit by the canine unit... i felt sympathy for the 3 black dudes in NY who got shot up by 5 cops and 50 bullets in a hail of gunfire the night before the driver's wedding, and none of the black guys even fired.  I felt genuine sympathy for all of these cases and extreme anger at the police ineptitude.  However i felt no sympathy for this cocky dipsh!t student who wanted to cause a scene becuz he had a chip on his shoulder due to being a person of middle eastern descent.

p.s. - And for god sake drop the constant maddox association.  Yea i like his website but my sense of humor was the way it was before i even discovered that website.  The reason i like that website is because of the mere fact that some aspects of his sense of humor intersect with mine.

[Anathema]

Iranians aren't Arabs.

And sympathy doesn't have anything to do with it. Police should not use tasers unless they're in danger (or have good cause to think that they are). And yes, I've seen you defend their actions in this regard.

You don't have much respect for the average student do you?

[GUNWOUNDS]

Iranians aren't Arabs.

And sympathy doesn't have anything to do with it. Police should not use tasers unless they're in danger (or have good cause to think that they are). And yes, I've seen you defend their actions in this regard.

You don't have much respect for the average student do you?

Yes i know iranians are persian.... Its obvious i was referring to any general middle eastern person as any will do when it comes to hating america or bush, but i'll award you the anal points regardless.  As far as having respect for the average student goes... i was a college student... i was even a masters student.  And you know what?  I never acted in such a manner that would be conducive to having a police officer use ANY type of force on me, and I've got some middle eastern blood (Egyptian/Turkish/Causcasian) in me ...with a foreign sounding name.  I'm always polite to officers and i wouldnt mind if they touched my arm or shoulder. Also, i wouldnt wish anything on anyone that i wouldnt own up to myself.  As i said before...it has nothing to do with the guy being a student.. if i were to act like a noncompliant disobedient dipsh!t trying to rally students to his cause to start a riot, i would expect the officer to have every right to taser my ass.  If i were the guy in that one video that flicked off the police officer and got beat down by his nightstick.... i would laugh it off and admit i deserved it. I just dont have sympathy or patience for people who brings things down upon themselves intentionally.  The old lady who got bitten or the the 3 black dudes that got shot up is a different story.  Thats obviously police brutality as there was no provocation.

[Anathema]

Yes i know iranians are persian.... Its obvious i was referring to any general middle eastern person as any will do when it comes to hating america or bush, but i'll award you the anal points regardless.  As far as having respect for the average student goes... i was a college student... i was even a masters student.  And you know what?  I never acted in such a manner that would be conducive to having a police officer use ANY type of force on me, and I've got some middle eastern blood (Egyptian/Turkish/Causcasian) in me ...with a foreign sounding name.  I'm always polite to officers and i wouldnt mind if they touched my arm or shoulder. Also, i wouldnt wish anything on anyone that i wouldnt own up to myself.  As i said before...it has nothing to do with the guy being a student.. if i were to act like a noncompliant disobedient dipsh!t trying to rally students to his cause to start a riot, i would expect the officer to have every right to taser my ass.  If i were the guy in that one video that flicked off the police officer and got beat down by his nightstick.... i would laugh it off and admit i deserved it. I just dont have sympathy or patience for people who brings things down upon themselves intentionally.  The old lady who got bitten or the the 3 black dudes that got shot up is a different story.  Thats obviously police brutality as there was no provocation.

Thank you for the anal points. I'm not done nitpicking however ;)

"Iranian" isn't just a nationality, it's also an ethnic/linguistic term. Persians are Iranians, but so are Kurds and Ossetians for example. Persians and most other people in the region don't look like Arabic or what most people call "middle eastern" at all.

If you approve of what the cops did in this case, good for you. I expect that they'll be punished (even if only lightly) for what they did, and rightly so.