Complaining about books you haven't read

[MrFlibble]

Oh is it? If one is writing a sequel/prequel/whatever to a book, it will be inevitably compared to the original. Nothing unfair in it.

[Dante]

I think it's rather unfair to compare Brian and Frank, Frank's books are undoubtedly far superior, I agree wholeheartedly with that, but if you do not compare the works of the father to the works of the son you'll find the prequels aren't that bad within themselves.

Funnily enough, one of my first rants on the subject mentioned this point. To shamelessly quote myself:

"In other words, it's not that the prequels are bad compared to Dune, because nearly everything is bad compared to Dune. It's an unfair standard to measure by. It's that the prequels are truly dreadful in their own right."

Mm, one of my better arguments.

[TMA_1]

The prequels were not that good. They were Tom Clancified into thriller novels. You cannot marry the prequels with the original novels, you just cant.

[Andrew]

The best thing Brian Herbert did was write Dreamer of Dune. That is a must read for any Frank Herbert fan.

House series = ok, easy to read

Jihad series = waste of time. Could have easily fit it into 2 books. Could skip every second page since it just reiterated what was said on the previous page. No thinking/imagination required. It precisely explained everything, even when you already figured it out.

Did you know that Xavier Harkonnen loved Serena Butler? It only mentioned it about a thousand times.

Hopefully sometime this winter I will read the last jihad book. Then get Dune 7 and 8 from the library.

[Tezcatlipoca]

I think it's rather unfair to compare Brian and Frank, Frank's books are undoubtedly far superior, I agree wholeheartedly with that, but if you do not compare the works of the father to the works of the son you'll find the prequels aren't that bad within themselves.

Perhaps the son should have found a different profession then. Or at the very least, developed his on series in his own universe rather than poisoning his fathers. Luckily, the originals are in such a standing as it is very difficult to shake them down due to legally binding "continuations" by alternate authors. Unfortunately, I've met people who have set their opinion based on the later....

[Chani]

Before i say anything... please don't think me another newbie strolling in to make blithe comments... I'm not new, but I will admit my postings are now a loooong time between (nothing personal, just a severe lack of internet access over the past couple of years)

Anyway.. I've read all the sequels and prequels and while I agree they are not in the same league as Franks writing , (of course, thats what drew us all here, a love for Franks writing), I am grateful for the books.  As a stand alone they may not be anything magnificent, but for adding depth and understanding I love them.  I love to know things that I have questioned in the past when reading the originals and I get practically hungry for the information to the point of real excitement when I get a new book in my hands.

I want to know how the series was going to end, and even though I know frank may have written it differently, I still want to know.  And that thirst for the ending far far overrides any literary complaints.  I dont think they are bad books, but like I say, they are not amazing books either. Nonetheless, they are books I have (and will) thoroughly enjoyed, almost in a studying kind of way.  I'm glad we have them.

(and I hope you're all well and happy.  you take care, okay?)

Amy xx

[applecrow88]

I'm reiterating Dante here but the reason we don't like the new books isn't just because they go against where we though Frank was taking it.  Its cause they are almost deliberately bad books when looking at DUNE and would not be anything special even by themselves w/o the franchise name.  If another author, say Orson Scott Card as an example had written the new books we would at least have the respect that he was distinguished and a successful award-winning author in his own right. What we don't like is the fact that Dune was a political and philosophical and sociological epic, KJA treats it like its Magic Happy Playtime Superweapon Showdown Hour.

[MrFlibble]

KJA treats it like its Magic Happy Playtime Superweapon Showdown Hour.

I tend to agree. I have read about 1.5 (or maybe a bit less) Prequel books and I came to the conclusion that I don't want to read anything else by these authors :P

[Aristeas]

I read the books. With the exception of the last few chapters of Corrin. They sucked. Big time. There is little more to add.

Oh you skipped the last few chapters? Well...you missed the suckiest part of the whole Butlerian Jihad!  Ooooooh did it ever suck!  You should probably count yourself lucky.  I read it and I can't forget that I read it.  Its like seeing something really horrific...like a bloody car accident or something...that you'd like to forget but you just can't...or maybe having a really annoying Britney Spears song stuck in your head.

I'm in hell.

But no...sorry...I think the OP is dead wrong.  I think most people that started with Frank Herbert's Dune do not appreciate the sequels all that much.  This isn't something that I've done any research on. Its faith.  I have faith that most of the people that are into Dune have similar tastes and expect more from any book associated with Dune to be more than mediocre and mediocre is exactly what the the prequels are...which is to say that the writing isn't bad.

The style is different...I don't think its as good as Frank's but I can't sit here and say that its bad just because its different. I'd go so far to say that there were some parts I truly enjoyed...the entire story of the birth of the Fremen I thought was fantastic...even worthy of the original Dune.  I enjoyed the exchanges between Erasmus and Omnius.  Erasmus I enjoyed in general.  I thought he was a great character.  And I liked how it was his cultivation of Gilbertus Albans that ultimately brought about mentats. The parts of the story that involved the swordsmen of Ginaz I liked a lot too.  There really is some good stuff there.  Unfortunately I don't feel that way about the parts of the story centered around the main characters. 

It appears to me that the problems most people have with these books are what actually happens in them...not so much the style of writing.  The character of Norma Cenva is absolutely ridiculous as is the progenitors of the BG.  They're both way more powerful than they should be.  Frank made their powers subtle and believable. Kevin and Brian want to make these people wizards that shoot devastating static electricity out of their asses.

The circumstances surrounding the beginning of the Atreides/Harkonnen feud...this should have been done very differently.  Making Abulurd look like a tragically idiotic sap was not the way to go about it. A far better way to do this would have been to have Abulurd commanding his own squadron of ships...have him make a strategic feint during the battle that somehow goes wrong and makes Vorian think that Abulurd is retreating thus generating the charge of cowardice.

There are several other, smaller things that add up...like the fact that Vorian's sons seem to hate him for never being around.  The dude is out saving the freaking human race and they're pissed about it? I can see that at age 12 but when they're in their sixties?  Please. Why try to force drama where there should be none?  Anyway...this post is long enough and I think you all get the idea.

Of course, nothing that these guys do will ever come close to what Frank did but I enjoyed the House series.  There were inconsistencies there that annoyed me but all in all it was great backstory on all of those great secondary characters (Leto, Mohiam, Shaddam, Fenring, etc) that added so much richness to Frank's original Dune. 

I will not be reading Hunters of Dune or anything that comes after it.  Anything good that Kevin and Brian have done is offset by the bad and I won't have the Duniverse further damaged in my head than it already is.

[Grallon]

Compare what Herbert son & his pal did with what Christopher Tolkien did with his own illustrious father's material: the former is a profiteering hack job while the latter is a testament without any intrusion other than (well) informed editorial comments.

If Frank Herberts's notes were as framentary as Tolkien's there was nothing more to be done with them, when one knows one doesn't have a 10th of the original author's talent, then present them as is.

Argh this is so aggravating !

G.

[Aristeas]

True, that. In a way its depressing how good The Children of Hurin is because we see just how good things can be...but aren't.

[TMA_1]

Totally agree concerning christopher tolkien and his work with The Silmarillion specifically. Cannot love that book any more than I already do, good beyond anything I could have imagined.

[Kokiri-Mentat]

I read all of Butlerian Jihad and I clearly remember laughing out loud during one pathetic attempt at poetic nuance.  I believed it involved some reference to a rose........could've been during or after the big plot climax.  I don't even consider myself well-versed in poetry or literature and I was just completely caught off guard at how poor some parts were.  Oddly enough I enjoyed it.  Not sure why...perhaps a cerebral form of sado-masochism, can't be healthy though..........