The right to use drugs?

[nampigai]

I think that religion should be banned as well.

[Megashrap]

"However, most potheads I ever knew, and I mean all of em, tend to have a vocabulary consisting mainly of words and phrases such as ummm, lemme think for a second, I don't remember that, Dunno, oh yeah, etc"

Is that representative of the effects of the stuff or of the linguistic tendencies of people who are more disposed to become users?

I would say more so of the users than potential users.  ;) Those effects anyway.

[gunner154]

I'm quite cross at this issue too. Generally, I think that there's nothing wrong with people trying to ruin themselves over, or live in a little, temporal dream under the effect of drugs. But at the same time, it might not be desirable economically and socially. Is it right for the government to step in and stop these people from enjoying themselves at the expense of themselves and society?

[Egeides]

With all those answers, I saw no one stating what he sees as good reasons to prohibit some drugs. Or good reasons to prohibit anything to start with, since it's what it's about. I don't see the debate going very far without. So?

Why should something be prohibited to start with? For my personal answer, see my other reply.

[Acriku]

The negative effects drugs have on communities is a clear reason why they should be prohibited.

[Andrew]

I'm quite cross at this issue too. Generally, I think that there's nothing wrong with people trying to ruin themselves over, or live in a little, temporal dream under the effect of drugs. But at the same time, it might not be desirable economically and socially. Is it right for the government to step in and stop these people from enjoying themselves at the expense of themselves and society?

Drugs lead to crime. The other night we we're dsicussing theft at a hardware store where people were stealing whatever they can (like drills ect) to feed their drug problem. They would steal and item, then bring it back to the same store the next day and try to get a refund on it. They would also steal from one store then bring it to a different dealer and try to get a refund.

What will all the drug junkies do once they can legally get access to the drugs? They will still use drugs and steal to feed their habit.

Although I like what drug and alcohol rehab places do by giving them drugs and alcohol. By giving them the drugs/alcohol (I think it was like 1 drink an hour max between 9AM and 12PM), the people would eventually drink less, and wouldn't need to resort to crime to feed their habits. But they would also get shelter.

Controlling drugs should be enforced. Prohibition may not work (I can get drugs anytime anywhere, it seems that everyone has connections), but legalising it doesn't seem like a good deterrent. Hey lets go buy some legal drugs and get f'ed up tonight. Or, hey lets go buy drugs from the drug dealer and get f'ed up. I guess not much difference. :-

Still, drugs are very stupid, and it seems that most crime (B&E, theft) is commited by people who need drug money or booze money.

To build on what Acriku- said... Drugs/alcohol have done wonderful things for the Native American population.

[Megashrap]

What will all the drug junkies do once they can legally get access to the drugs? They will still use drugs and steal to feed their habit.

But why would a junkie steal to obtain drugs when if it were legal, they could get it free? Plus if it were legalized by the Gov. it wouldn't be shit-grade drugs but the real deal. I'm not saying it should be, just replying to that comment is all.  I'm pretty sure lets say a Morphine junkie would choose the 100% pharmacutical morphine over the street version anyday.

[Andrew]

Why would the government give away drugs freely to whoever wanted it? (even non drug users)

They would still have to steal to pay for the drugs. Unless the government somehow made them so cheap that drug users would overdose before needing to steal.

But then people say tax the hell out of it, which would make it expensive and would increase black market which happened in the 90's with Canadian cigarettes being heavily taxed. Even the tobacco companies were black marketing them.

[Megashrap]

Ok i'm not 100% for making ALL drugs legal. I was reading an article earlier today on this topic and came across a few that do have some merrit to them. Here's just one......

"How would "regulated legalization" work? It would:

[Dude_Doc]

After 25 years of "war on drugs" and 25 billion dollars spent on fighting drugs, isn't it time to reconsider the strategy in use?

Or maybe the US government really knows what they do :D ...

[TMA_1]

I believe they should be legalized.

Most deaths through illegal narcotics and stimulants occure from overdose. You may get a bag of heroine and use about 200 mgs of the stuff and reach your peak high, and then later use the same amount from the same bag and overdose. The reason why most people die from these drugs is not because of the after effects, but because people overdose off of unregulated stuff that is more or less potent from hit to hit. Remember that the main aim of a user is not to die, obviously.

This is why most users of heroine for example prefer oxycontin, because it is made by pharmicutical companies. It drastically lowers overdose by experianced users and the high is almost identical, in fact better in many peoples opinions. The problem is it is much more expensive than heroine.

The drug that causes the most deaths per year is alcohol, and not just because it is legal, but because it is so debilitating to the organs. Heroine and Cocaine are as well, but honestly are not as deadly over the long run as alcohol can potentially be.

Amphetamines are another story. Actually any stimulant is. Amphetamines ravage the body and mind like no other drug. Still though I think these should be legal and regulated by the government.

many people are tired of governments intruding into the lives of individuals. Most people dont realize this but addicts are not the stereotype that people think of, bums living inthe streets. Many addicts go unseen and are never caught by the law.

Laws against drugs are laws to protect individuals from themselves. I believe that if we are quick to attack other laws that are formed on a moral basis, or on a basis to protect people from themselves, then we need to rethink these laws. On top of this we need better tools for drug recovery, and spend less time focusing on drug prevention.

I speak about this with some experiance.

[Acriku]

While you may have experience (hippie), it is quite clear that legalizing drugs will only cumulate the amount of addicts in our society. If you give citizens access to any drug they like, you are opening doors that are very hard and even destructive to go back out of. Legalize drugs, and more people will become slaves to the paraphenalia they obtained. If the government taxes the hell out of drugs, people (damn hippies) will find a way to get drugs that are not as expensive - which leads to the same problems as we have currently. If the government legalizes drugs but only allows low potency drugs, then people will eventually want a better high - which leads to the same problems we have currently. Just on a larger scale.

I don't see any good in legalizing drugs. You damn hippie.

[Megashrap]

If the government legalizes drugs but only allows low potency drugs, then people will eventually want a better high - which leads to the same problems we have currently. Just on a larger scale.

I don't see any good in legalizing drugs. You damn hippie.

True, but what about if all pharmacutical strengths of drugs were legalized, and not just low potentcy ones? I wouldn't think the same problems would occur in terms of looking for a better high on the streets, or other similar crimes associated with drug use. My opinion anyway.

[Acriku]

They might not be looking for a better high, but they'd surely be addicted more quickly and strongly which can very well lead to crime and anti-social patterns. It just seems like a lose-lose situation here.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Maybe drugs need to stay taboo.. becuz perhaps legalizing it could increase usuage?  because an uneducated person might hink that drugs are ok .. cause surely the government approves it?  And its destructive and unavoidable really....I mean you will get so tolerant to a drug... that eventually you will have to take massive amounts of the drug not to get high but to just feel NORMAL.  While the rest of us are feeling normal for FREE.  Drugs are illogical.  They are used primarily because (this is just my opinion) guys are insecure about their sexual prowess... and feel they must intoxicate or drug a woman for her to be pliable for sex.... or because they think it is "cool".  No logical person would take drugs knowing that one day they would have to pay massive amounts of cash just to feel NORMAL and never be able to get high again without literally overdosing and dieing.  wtf.

Guns

[Khan]

I cant quite see how the sex argument works, the only drugs which would work with that argument are date rape drugs, which the guy wouldn't take anyway, or alcohol, which is already legal. Also the whole 'normal' argument thing you bring up depends as well, I cant think of any drugs which make you feel normal after you take a lot of them, perhaps you mean heroin but you can still guite high quite easily, you just need to take it more often. Besides what about drugs which aren't addictive, like ecstacy, LSD, or magic mushrooms?

[Megashrap]

Besides what about drugs which aren't addictive, like ecstacy, LSD, or magic mushrooms?

ANY drug has the potential to become addictive. If your trying to say that anything other than an opiate based type of drug is not addictive your wrong. Sure you can quote something from a Nurses or Dr.'s drug book, or somewhere else for that matter. But I'm sure addiction to anything is a person to person based matter. Hell I know people who are addicted to such things as BC powder,cough syrup,no-doz,nyquil, over the counter sleep aids...the list goes on and on.

I cant think of any drugs which make you feel normal after you take a lot of them, perhaps you mean heroin but you can still guite high quite easily, you just need to take it more often.

Tell that to a heroin or other heavy opiate user that has done it for years. They will tell you they don't do it to actually get high, but to just stop the withdrawal symptoms for the most-part. To them that is thier perception and physical need to feeling "NORMAL".

[Khan]

ANY drug has the potential to become addictive. If your trying to say that anything other than an opiate based type of drug is not addictive your wrong. Sure you can quote something from a Nurses or Dr.'s drug book, or somewhere else for that matter. But I'm sure addiction to anything is a person to person based matter. Hell I know people who are addicted to such things as BC powder,cough syrup,no-doz,nyquil, over the counter sleep aids...the list goes on and on.

SO then you'd be in favour of a system where you're allowed drugs if your capable of taking them without getting addicted, because I know I can take a fair bit of ecstacy and yet I'm not addicted. Besides there's a difference between chemical and emotional addiction.

Tell that to a heroin or other heavy opiate user that has done it for years. They will tell you they don't do it to actually get high, but to just stop the withdrawal symptoms for the most-part. To them that is thier perception and physical need to feeling "NORMAL".

Acually I was thinking abbout an interview with a heroin addict from a show in the UK called 'Cold Turkey'. I was pretty much just paraphrasing what he said.

[Megashrap]

SO then you'd be in favour of a system where you're allowed drugs if your capable of taking them without getting addicted,

Umm, that's not even what the damn quote was about. "Being allowed to take drugs if your capable of taking them without getting addicted"? How oxy-moronic... I said ANY drug has the potential to become addictive on a person to person level.

[gunner154]

Yes, ANY drug can become addictive. Even if you say some drugs are not addictive, there is little point in telling me if you 'can take a fair bit of ecstacy and... not addicted' because, at the end of the day, we are not imposing laws on your consumption of drugs, but rather the population's consumption of drugs.

It is easy to talk about chemical and emotional addiction, but is emotional addiction not a consequence of chemical addiction? If you talk to me about emotional addiction, I'll tell you that drugs don't simply affect the emotions of a person since the emotions of a person are also determined by various factors, like hormonal levels, etc. Even if we can distinguish between chemical and emotional addiction, do you intend to run every (potential) drug addict through psychological tests to determine the kind of addiction he's faced? How much do you intend to spend on checking everybody? What if emotional addiction cannot be cured? Cold turkey everyone? Isn't that no different from illegalising it altogether?

[GUNWOUNDS]

Khan,  date rape drug isnt the only drug to make women pliable.... ecstacy also makes them pliable.... which you should have known since you take it.  If you and a girl get high on ecstacy that should guarantee you a piece of ass that night.. if not then you are doing something wrong.  Sure alcohol can work too ... but alcohol is legal because it is a food/food additive, and has 7 calories per 1g of alcohol.  Ecstacy is some chemical that does god knows what to your body....

Also TMA said that alchool is really bad etc.... sure it can be.. but it also can be good for you... did you know that many foods have methanol in them?... which gets converted into formaldehyde in your body? did you know this damages your optic nerve and can build up in your cells and damage your organs... and that two tablespoons of methanol can kill you?.  Well if you drink 1-2 beers (or wine) a day with your meals the ethanol in the beer can neutralize the methanol.  Alcohol in the right quantities can provide calories, nutrition, and beneficial effects to your heart.  Anything taken in excess can kill you... too much water and you will drown ;D

But unfortunately chemical drugs have no good effects and you are merely poisioning yourself with toxins. So alcohol can be logical if done correctly ....whereas drugs just dont make any sense at all.

Guns

[Khan]

Erm if you'd ever taken ecstacy then you'd know that it wouldn't matter how horny you get because you cant get an erection, and besides youdont get that sort of horny, at least I've never wanted to have sex while on it.

Scar and gunner:

you seem to miss the point of what I actually said. Certain drugs like heroin, nicotine, crystal meth, cocaine etc, cause chemical addiction. When your body itself wants more and more of the drug, because the more you take it the more you reset what your body thinks its 'normal' levels are, so when you stop taking then you start to crave them and go 'cold turkey'. Other drugs like Acid and the others I mentioned cant do that to your body. In fact after you do mushrooms you dont want to do them for a while. However, you can get addicted to the state of mind, emotional addiction ;).

[gunner154]

You don't really get my argument. At the end of the day, regardless of what you say about addiction, it is still justified to illegalise it. See above.

[GUNWOUNDS]

I heard you can get addicted to NutraSweet and that if you quit cold turkey you get withdrawal symptoms.. .just like with caffeine.

[Megashrap]

Erm if you'd ever taken ecstacy then you'd know that it wouldn't matter how horny you get because you cant get an erection, and besides youdont get that sort of horny, at least I've never wanted to have sex while on it.

Scar and gunner:

you seem to miss the point of what I actually said. Certain drugs like heroin, nicotine, crystal meth, cocaine etc, cause chemical addiction. When your body itself wants more and more of the drug, because the more you take it the more you reset what your body thinks its 'normal' levels are, so when you stop taking then you start to crave them and go 'cold turkey'. Other drugs like Acid and the others I mentioned cant do that to your body. In fact after you do mushrooms you dont want to do them for a while. However, you can get addicted to the state of mind, emotional addiction ;).

I think I get the point that you sure are defending the hell out of X and shrooms like they are candy and not chemicals.  ;)

I'm saying that a drug is a drug. The addiction and chemical dependancy factor is different from person to person for different drugs. From over the counter sleep aids to some fool picking fungus out or cow-shit to get thier fix...to even sugar substitutes. You can try as much as you like to say that they just can't be as addictive as others....shit man, you can dress a monkey in silk,but it's still a monkey.