Abortion and the Underclass

[TMA_1]

http://www.blackgenocide.org/

I was looking through a few websites, specifically the one mentioned above. It is funny how many afro-American civil rights leaders were totally against abortion, citing it's roots in eugenics and the destruction of the black race. Even Jesse Jackson was once against it. Now of course he is purely a politician, and you know what happens when someone becomes a politician...

The statistics are accurate, and disturbing. some of the site might be gruesome, so be careful.

Planned Parenthood targets the poor in America. They are going a good job at as well. People will laugh at this, but look at Rome. One of it's primary downfalls was the decline in female birth rates of the patrician class, which took a good three hundred years to thoroughly cleanse. We may not think much of these kinds of statistics, but this kind of stuff will slowly cripple our nation. It just takes time. Sadly, Americans and the West in general really have a short attention span...

it just makes me sick to my stomach. Especially the fact that people praise Margaret Sanger as a female hero... her history is dark and disturbing.

I am not speaking from baseless moral opposition, I am speaking from the point of view that this is destroying the American underclass, and destroying it slowly. Promiscuity rates are rising, STDs are rising, the increase of abortions is inevitable.

[Acriku]

With the problem of overpopulation, I highly doubt abortion is going to cripple the underclass. If anything, abortion helps the underclass if they can't afford a baby. Shit happens, and a condom isn't 100% fool-proof. If the woman gets pregnant because of this, do you expect her to spend all of her money and make her worse off than before, eventually to the point of being unable to take care of the child? Abortion is a necessary option to have, but not necessary to do.

[stefanhendriks]

i feel disturbed when we talk about underclass, and upperclass. Though you have to define people with 'less income/wealth'. Under'class' and upper'class' sounds so negative!

Planned birthcontrol is not bad, its bad when restricting people to 1 child, look at China (?)... The man/women ratio is very disturbed.

Abortion is a very good way to ensure your children have a good future. Abortion is not because people do NOT want children. Its because people do NOT want people AT THAT TIME. Having children is something built in humans anyway. ;)

[TMA_1]

its negative, but that is the way it is. Planned Parenthood started as an organization to "weed" out the supposed negative strains of America. Right now the African American people are Deminishing, not growing. Planned Parenthood and other organizations target poor communities, and a majority of it's centers are located in poverty stricken areas of America. The services are offered usually for free with a sort of copayment. The problem lies within the american family. Children are raised in a society of lusts and desires. Unwanted children and promiscuity have been around ever since the earliest civilizations have existed. It is the sheer amount of abortions that are alarming. The Afro American abortion rate is a staggering example. about 2 or 3 of 5 black children will be aborted during this year... doesnt this say something at all? instead of trying to justify something, look at both it's positive and negative impacts. I agree that abortion is necissary at times, but when it comes to sheer immaturity on the part of one who is goingto abort a human in it's early stages of development, doesnt this have to be looked upon with a negative eye? People seem to never really notice that MOST of abortions taking place in america are because younger people cannot practice safe sex, because of sheer lack of discipline... The majority of abortions in america are not caused because of medical problems. The process of bringing a new sentient life into this world shouldnt be treated as a light switch, to be turned on and off at will. You can disagree with me obviously, but I just dont see any rational reason why it should be this way.

These are just my personal views, not trying to cram any kinda propaganda down anyone's throat, I just feel strongly about this issue. Though I have become a bit more progressive in my personal views, many core standards have stuck with me, and some like abortion have become an even stronger position for me.

[Acriku]

Well then I agree, and what we should do is provide a nationwide installment of safe sex education, how to perform safe sex, and the consequences of safe and unsafe sex. If we educate the children when they're most prone to perform unsafe sex, then we can get rid of the problem instead of just dealing with the symptoms (abortion).

[TMA_1]

hmm in times like this I would have to agree.

[Egeides]

Well then I agree, and what we should do is provide a nationwide installment of safe sex education, how to perform safe sex, and the consequences of safe and unsafe sex. If we educate the children when they're most prone to perform unsafe sex, then we can get rid of the problem instead of just dealing with the symptoms (abortion).

I tend to agree that it is the source of the problem, and not only to not get the consequences but as a problem itself.

But I think that a little part of the problem is missing here. Abortion may be very often not a way to get children which healthily have what they need, but a way to not see the money go down in itself. Then it has the potential to be a bad spiral.

Of course, there are also other issues to abortion, which makes it even more complicated.

[gunner154]

... like the presence of Abortion being the solution to the problem, as many youngsters see it.

[Egeides]

I understand that such reasoning can come out of it. But also, one can start saying that doing "this" is ok to solve, then the situation worstens and a bit more is demanded. Doing "that" becomes the added solution to "this" which then became the norm. Later on, "this" and "that" are both norm and you need something else, a process which can bring a strain on morality as the "need" demands.

But as I said, this is only one part of this whole question.

[exatreide]

I would not suport abortion if we had a effective nationwide healthcare and welfare system.

Women "I'm pregent what should I do?"

"Have the baby born!" Republians

*Babies born*

"Awww he is so cute, but what do I do now?"

*Republicans leave*

Just seems incredibly hypocritcal to want a baby born, then to abondon it the minute its born, and untill that stops happening, I will continue to suport abortion.

And out curiosity, if conception is the momment life begins, why do the fundamentalists still celebarte their "birthdays" ? And not their "Conception" day.

[Dude_Doc]

I actually support abortion, but mainly because I don't believe that a raped woman would want to have the criminal's baby. I also support it if the family in question is very poor, and don't have the money to sustain the child to be born. Now, I don't support the killing of any living creature - so I'm not supporting abortion because I just want another option or so.

But then again, not all preventives are foolproof. It is the woman's body too - what are we to decide over another person's life? And if it isn't possible in the USA, then it is in Mexico, Canada, Puerto Rico, and so on.

[GUNWOUNDS]

And out curiosity, if conception is the momment life begins, why do the fundamentalists still celebarte their "birthdays" ? And not their "Conception" day.

because birthdays are exact and conception dates can vary with their accuracy.  PLus a birthday is celebrating your entrance into the outside world.. celebrating conception would be like celebrating your parents bumping uglies.

[Andrew]

Rape victims should definitely have the choice, there is no point arguing for or against (although morning after pill makes it easy to solve that problem (minus the phsychological trama of getting raped the night before).

I believe in woman's rights, although for all those people who have unsafe sex and then simply go have an abortion (I doubt people don't learn from their mistakes and end up going to the abortion clinics every couple months)

Safe sex should be taught, yet some people who oppose abortion also oppose sex before marriage and think that educating people about sex/consequences of sex promotes sex, and therefore education of safe sex should not be taught which leads to STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

Education is the key to solving/reducing the problems. Not preaching that sex should be saved until marriage.

Sorry if a bit off topic.

[exatreide]

Not to mention over half of all marriges fail, so saying "wait till you're maried" doesn't really make any sense.

[gunner154]

Undoubtedly, waiting till you're married before having sex is quite bygone in modern society, as exatreides has mentioned. Sex education is not uncommon anymore, yet these problems surface. It's a problem of culture, and perhaps we need "counterculture", literally?

[stefanhendriks]

there is also another problem: Church...

As long as the church does not support conception (especially in the 3rd world), we will continue to have massive birthrates and a lot of deaths among children. Look at africa...

[exatreide]

Look at America, it has the leading death rate for new borns in the industrialized world.

[stefanhendriks]

Though they do not die of Aids...

[TMA_1]

how does abortion fit into healthcare systems in other countries? It just hit me that I have never thought of this. How do other countries deal with this issue? or is it even an issue in the first place? is there much opposition in other countries?

[stefanhendriks]

at here, any women who wants to have an abortion, can have it. Basicly, she does not even need permission from anyone. The only limit is that the embryo may not be older then 24 weeks.

When you have watched pictures of a 'baby' who is 24 weeks old, you get sick. So , for those who do abortion at very late stages, i'd say they are more like murdering then aborting some 'start up process'.

There is not much opposition to abortion here; atleast not that i know.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Not to mention over half of all marriges fail, so saying "wait till you're maried" doesn't really make any sense.

actually you got it backwards.... i think half of marriages fail BECAUSE people dont wait.

[GUNWOUNDS]

With the problem of overpopulation, I highly doubt abortion is going to cripple the underclass. If anything, abortion helps the underclass if they can't afford a baby. Shit happens, and a condom isn't 100% fool-proof. If the woman gets pregnant because of this, do you expect her to spend all of her money and make her worse off than before, eventually to the point of being unable to take care of the child? Abortion is a necessary option to have, but not necessary to do.

I know you agreed with TMA after he responded to this statement of yours.

[GUNWOUNDS]

oh and i guess everyone is right.. there is just no help for

[Acriku]

I know you agreed with TMA after he responded to this statement of yours.  But i had to put in my two cents as well.  I feel that this statement is so  copout-ish that it isnt even funny and its borderline immature.  First of all a condom doesnt break that easy.... second of all i have been to a condom factory and seen the testing they do.. it is rigorous... air pressure, leak sampling, stretch tests....the whole gambit.  You can rest assured your condom is safe unless you got some 15 inch penis.  Thirdly i hate it when pro-choice people use the "rape, medical, condom break " copouts.

Condoms breaking probably account for 0.00000001% of all pregnancies and rape is about 1% and medical is like 3%.  so that means 96% of all abortions are just for no good reason.

So you would eliminate the option of abortion then? Bringing up those minority cases (the percentages are completely made up by yourself, it seems) just illustrates the main issue - people need the OPTION. I don't condone the actual act, I think adoption would be the best choice, but I also think that I have no right to restrict a woman's freedom. I don't like the people smoking when I'm jogging past them, but I can't eliminate that freedom because I don't like it. Whether a woman can have an abortion is none of the business of any federal government body.

I work at Publix, and we cash WIC checks all the time, so I know about the help a mother can have as far as food goes. But having a child changes the life of the woman bearing it. If a woman makes a mistake and decides to abort the process in an acceptable window of time, then she should have that right. As a man, what gives you the right to restrict their freedom? Funny how most pro-life people are men.

[GUNWOUNDS]

So you would eliminate the option of abortion then? Bringing up those minority cases (the percentages are completely made up by yourself, it seems) just illustrates the main issue - people need the OPTION. I don't condone the actual act, I think adoption would be the best choice, but I also think that I have no right to restrict a woman's freedom. I don't like the people smoking when I'm jogging past them, but I can't eliminate that freedom because I don't like it. Whether a woman can have an abortion is none of the business of any federal government body.

I work at Publix, and we cash WIC checks all the time, so I know about the help a mother can have as far as food goes. But having a child changes the life of the woman bearing it. If a woman makes a mistake and decides to abort the process in an acceptable window of time, then she should have that right. As a man, what gives you the right to restrict their freedom? Funny how most pro-life people are men.

Maybe more pro-lifers are men... maybe its more women... what was the point in bringing that up?  Maybe my dog cares more... who gives a shit?... but my statistics are actually legit... they are in that old thread somewhere here on this forum about the abortion topic we had months ago.

Anyways... i think that if a woman got raped or has a medical blah blah whatever then sure have the abortion your perogative.  But dont use my fucking tax money to kill kids that you had because you were to lazy to wrap a piece of plastic around some guys cock or  decided not to take a tiny pill.

I say ban casual abortions.. only keep them for truly legit occasions.  Sorta like we cant ban smoking all together but atleast there is no smoking in government buildings and most restaurants have no-smoking sections.  Meaning sometimes it is OK to infringe on others rights.  We also infrgine on people's freedom of speech .... people cant scream FIRE in a movie theatre and there are plenty more examples.

People have rights but they dont have the right to do whatever the hell they please.  There has to be limits to everything.  There has to be limits on Abortion as well.  Disagreeing with that means you agree that women should be allowed to be irresponsible with their reproductive organs... if that is the case then lets have free sterilization instead of abortion.