Gilneas Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 Brilliant! Those are some very good suggestions.I didn't like the morale thing though, it sounds complicated and impractical.And this made me wonder about something else, will units gain experience and ranks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner154 Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 The idea for troop morale came about when I was thinking of the Harkonnen characteristic Rampage, and figured that could be good.. But then again it is quite impractical. It basically allows troops of a certain territory to fight better. It is determined by score reduced/increased. So taking out a Palace and a Con.Yard can cripple the morale greatly and allow the enemy to more effectively run in and wipe out the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 And this made me wonder about something else, will units gain experience and ranks?I think yes. At least, it was planned to do, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 What about the vehicles having crews?I mean the vehicle can be destroyed in a battle, but the crew can save itself. And take another vehicle and fight another day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 The "vehicle destroyed, crew saved" part was in original Dune 2. The "crew takes another vehicle" part must be cleared, beacuse vehicle production automatically assigns crew to a vehicle when it's built, so there's no need for excess crew. Or do you mean they'll act like hijackers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Anyone played Z? The crew and unit are different, and seperable.In paractical D2TM terms that means sometimes crew can escape vehicle death, and crew can be killed inside vehicles - leaving the vehicles claimable by other infantry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Not exactly...I mean it's a pity to loose an experienced crew. I' don't know... send them to the factory so that the next vehicle produced will have them inside... will have their experience... And like hijackers... well that should be interesting... but i don't know how that will be accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilneas Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 That does no good at all, who would care for a single infantry unit?Unless he has a high 'rank'.As for stealing other units, we already have a Deviator for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Of course I would be talking about a high rank.Or they could automaticaly return to the factory to mount another vehicle unless ordered otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner154 Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Considerable only if units had veterency levels in the first place. And besides that, the game will be of a scale so large, high level units would not matter as much. You'll be in control of SEVERAL territories, mind you. Surviving crew is acceptable... but joining another vehicle is quite unnecessary in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Agreed. Too much trouble with small rare units... However, I think its wise to give the surviving crew the same rank as the destroyed vehicle had... given there are ranks and are crew survivors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanhendriks Posted August 29, 2005 Author Share Posted August 29, 2005 Sorry for my lack of response, i had a weekend off with my girlfriend. :)Anyhow. I was thinking of the following. Experience is a good thing. So, what about the following:- There is a 'region experience' which is 'controlled' by the experience gained in the region itselfMeaning: This only affects on units you build. The more battles you fight in a region, the more your units win, the more 'experience' the region gains and the more default experience your units get. (see it as, the units get trained more). Maybe lets say they can 'earn' a 1 star experience at maximum.So:In regions you just invaded, the just built units have an experience of 0. In regions where you control for a longer perdiod of time (and won a few battles), the experiences may be 1 star for 'just built units'.Something different, what about 'general experience'. Like in C&C generals, they have the '5 star general' which is the max you can get. Perhaps this should also be implemented in some way? Where you can have multiple stars perhaps. Stars with relationships to other factions (the % told in the roadmap). Stars related to technology (performed updates for const yards, etc). Stars related to experience gained (units killed/lost & structures destroyed/lost). And stars for spice mining... (Perhaps a political star?)Stars should then be able to be gained by the sub-goals (ie, if you mine 1000 extra credits you could earn a star). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 @MrFibble: the fact that the crew has the same experience as the vehicle+crew is not realistic.I mean they have that rank as gunners, ... err... drivers... you know. But when on foot they have no experience at all. The shoot but they must be weaker than ordinary infantry.A today's tank crew or helocpoter crew are quite easy prey for the infantry.@Stefan: what you're trying to say os some "VALOR" as in Total War? That would be interesting...As a new idea: commanders/generals.Now, you have several regions to manage. You are able to manage so many regions but not a whole front. It would be interesting to "employ" additional commanders to defend regions, or to carry out attack where you are not interested. They could carry out a raid into enemy territory and return home. It would be an AI vs AI where you are not present, but where you need an area secured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I think we need provision for the capture of nonmilitary hardware, particularly the discovery of unclaimed hardware. In DI equipment was found in sietches. Engineers are used in C&C games for chinooks and structures (and of course the vehicles therein). DII let infantry take over damaged structures. Z let infantry take unclaimed vehicles and turrets. In a desert war in a universe where scarcity is the key, and troop transport costs are high, we have got to have a system for recovering or seizing equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilneas Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Employing generals will make Regions way in the back of your territory useful as well.Employ a general to them who will make lots of Siege Tanks and Rocket Launchers and sends them to the front.Also, it seems really ungainly to move your troops around Dune, because you have to move them to the edge of every region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 No edges. All transport is by carryall, remember? (Frigates, I think, should play a certain part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilneas Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 No edges. All transport is by carryall, remember? (Frigates, I think, should play a certain part).Alright, cool. I must have had an older Roadmap in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner154 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Well, I can't imagine actually needing to HIRE commanders... that would put too much luck on the line. You should automatically have commanders controlling troops for you. Otherwise... the computer opponents would have a commander for each territory, and that means they either have to hire lots of commanders, or they'll get free commanders. Actually hiring commanders would make treachery more possible though.You COULD have unoccupied vehicles waiting to be taken over, or even damage vehicles to destroy to get credits from (like in Emperor), but to go to the extent of veterancy would be a bit too.... far fetched for our purpose.Region experience could work, but it is quite similar to my Troop Morale idea. They could be merged together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxl Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I like this 'region experience' idea more than the 'troop morale' idea. Troops gain 'region experience' because they get to know the territory when fighting. Generally it's a way to simulate that your troops have more chances to backstep your enemies, for example, but the gameplay is kept simple. But if there was something like troop morale, the player would must have possibilities to rise the morale by getting better support, for example and therefore the gameplay would become more complicated, but a game should be as simple as possible.And about this "the crew of a vehicle has a chance to survive when the vehicle is destroyed"-thing: I think it's not really necessary, but it's the simplest way to enable basic infantry to enter vehicles and these vehicles gain the soldier's experience, for example. If a vehicle gets destroyed, there is a certain chance that a basic infantry with the same experience spawns just next to the destroyed vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanhendriks Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 the 'infantry entering vehicles' thing is way to 'low'. Ie, its way to zoomed in on the strategic aspect. Since the game zooms 'out' by going 'global' it wont be benefitial to have troops running around and let them enter units or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 It would be more complex... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanhendriks Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Code-wise its not that complex. But it will be to complex when playing the game. When you have to think of your global strategy and your region strategy. But also take care of mini things like that, its getting an overhead. Something that must be prevented. Keep it plain simple stupid ;) the KISS method ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidu Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Yeah, I get it... but! What about making the game multiplayer. Several players being Antreides, some Harkonnen, some Ordos. Each with his front section. Interacting, coordonating their attacks.Some might stay behind in the "safe" regions and make sure production is up and running. Sending troops to the front, spice mining, etc.Can you code multiplayer in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanhendriks Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 I have no experience on that side. But thats also far-fetched-future talk. Lets try to get a game running, and later we might talk about multi-player. If anyone has the brains to code it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxl Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 the 'infantry entering vehicles' thing is way to 'low'. Ie, its way to zoomed in on the strategic aspect. Since the game zooms 'out' by going 'global' it wont be benefitial to have troops running around and let them enter units or something.Well, I thought of this as a way to replace pilots that were mentioned before, because IMHO they would be too 'low'. Of course, every vehicle should have it's own crew when leaving the factory. However, I don't like the idea that pilots and vehicles are seperated at all. IMO the crew should be killed at the same time, the vehicle gets destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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