"The Heaven Makers" by Frank Herbert

[AeonGrey]

Have any of you ever read this book?  I was at a used book store and picked it up.  I was shocked to see it, as I'd never even heard of this book.

[TMA_1]

yeah I have it. I have most frank herbert books. I just picked up "Dragon under the Sea" not too long ago. Not too long ago I picked up the box set of "worlds beyond Dune", with a few frank herbert books. The Jesus Incident series is in it as well as the Whipping Star series is in it, A teacher gave it to me for free!

Anyways, the Heaven Makers book is okay, i havent read all of it though, so I cant say any more.

I had one book called The God Makers, but I let a friend borrow it and well, he still has it and I cant get ahold of him. damn it! lol so I need to get that book.

[Tako]

never heard of it althougd I do have the god-makers though and liked it very much, I almost thought you where talking about the gbook the god-makers cus they change the titles so much in the duch versions. TMA set that one right in time

[Vanguard3000]

What's the God Makers about?

I just finished Hellstrom's Hive this morning, and it was very interesting.  When I'm done Robertson Davies' The Manticore (Canadian fiction; I really enjoyed its predecessor, Fifth Business), I'll be reading Herbert's The White Plague.

[Mahdi]

Adrian:  Read about the first quarter of The White plague, and then skip to the last quarter of it.

You won't miss much.

So much better that way.

The middle is horrible but the beggining and ending are great.

[Andrew]

I do remember a part or section of The White Plague being boring.

And it was somewhere in the middle. But don't skip it. :P

I found the ending to The Dosadi Experiment boring (and confusing), although the book itself was pretty messed up. ;)

[Tako]

What's the God Makers about?

can't explain really, more or less about that god's are created and do not exist ur something, very complex story

just read it, its worht it!

[TMA_1]

yeah, I havent read all of the God Makers. I wish I wouldnt have lent that book out. I read a bit of the beginning, and it was looking promising, but I had tol end it out, and look what happened??? lol oh well. :)

[Tako]

so there is a wise lesson to be learned here: do not loan you'r books to other people(at least not till you've ead them yourselves)

I got it as a paperback in the local bookstore some years ago. It is the only book other than Dune (and related) that I've read from FH

[Caid Ivik]

Frank is 20 years dead, so I think it would be no problem now... Quotes were made by a philosopher from Charles' University of Prague, they are surely a good lead to understand the book ;D

http://kyberia.sk/id/791582

[TMA_1]

wise words arutha, if only you would have been there to slap me across my face.lol

[Tako]

::) if only....

but seriously now, a question coma to my mind; why did you loan the book when you had not yet finishd it? sound s odd, or where you reading many books at the smae time?

[TMA_1]

nope, I have done it before. See, I have a library in my room.lol 

Not really, but I do have a bookshelf in my room with a lot of books. Most of them I have read, but not all. See I have kinda a waiting list of books. I am reading one right now, and have four lined up after that, and I have a few more in the unread book portion of my bookshelf.

My friend happened to notice the cover of it, and read the little teaser on the back. Because of that he asked if he could borrow it and I said yes. Now I havent seen him in ages. oops. hehe

[Mahdi]

Other than the Dune books, I can't say I'm a fan of Herberts writing.

At best his other books have flashes of brilliance that's just enough to keep you reading through the crap.

I really think that everything simply came together for him in Dune.  His dense plotting, over-arching themes,distinctive prose culminated in Dune and Dune Messiah (the rest of the dune books too, but those ones specificly) and he just couldn't find the right balance in the rest of his works.

[TMA_1]

What books are you referring to when you say they are largely full of "crap"?  Have you read many of them? it sounds like you have, so if you could, could you list some that have these trends?

Because I got a completely different feeling. IN fact in the top 10 favorite books I have, I would say that Whipping Star, Santeroga Barrier, and Destination: Void, would be on the list. I like to think I have pretty good taste in books too, so I guess it is just a difference of opinion.

[Vanguard3000]

Adrian:

[Mahdi]

If that's how I read books, I would have skipped ninety per cent of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, instead of just the appendices.

And you'd be a happier man for it.

[Vanguard3000]

That's true.  That was precious time wasted on stuff I very easily could have wasted elsewhere!

[Mahdi]

Yup.

[Tako]

well there you have it: something in commen by FH and Tolkien

They both spend a lot of time discribing things that are trivial,

as an accample: they would not say there was a door

but

There was a door made of wood and it had markings on it, it must be an old door cus it had manny scrashes and it had an old smell. The smell of old doors. The door was green.

btw madhi is'nt there a rule for one-word post's?  ??? ::)

[Vanguard3000]

Well description is good; it adds to the atmosphere when done correctly.

And tell me more about aforementioned door.

[Caid Ivik]

Many great thinkers like Wittgenstein or Leibnitz were able to write their main theory on 100 KB scale. To erase triviality is an eternal goal of all. However, scifi and fantasy are genres, were we need to have some overview on the world. Better is when this description becomes a core for story, like by ie Lovecraft or Lem...

[TMA_1]

hey jerks, I love Chronicals of Arda. I cant believe you guys think they are boring, your all nuts. hehe

[nemafakei]

"To erase triviality is an eternal goal of all."

Not all description is trivial.

While Tolkein will describe a door whenever he can, FH describes a door only when he has something interesting to say about it: "it must be an old door cus it had manny scrashes and it had an old smell" is a good example. It teaches you to notice things more. Description for its own sake is often forgettable and ultimately pointless.

[TMA_1]

The chronicals or arda require this kind of description though. I dont think people realize that, and often miss the boat. The series is written in a form that is a mix of a biographical history, or in a myth-proper style of format. Arda is a deep part of the story, and it's history and geology is just as important as any character. Remember that Tolkien wrote the series partially to help develop his own artificial languages that he had created. Because of this he needed to set a mythology to the linguistics of it, so that it would create a complete life of it's own.

the book is an exploration of another realm, a realm that is completely devoid of our own. Because of this the descriptions mentioned in the chronicals are totally acceptable.

this is just my personal opinion though. If you actaully read The Lost Tales, or The Silmarillion, than you would understand. That is my defense, and nobody can change my mind otherwise. hehehe

sorry for taking this thread too off topic. :)