1st of December

[Davidu]

A little bit late, I think... but here it is:

Romania's national day is on the 1st of December, in celebration of the decision taken in Alba-Iulia in 1918 to unite Transilvania, Banat, Crisana and Maramures to Romania. Previosly that year Basarabia and Bucovina united with Romania, after the Russian and Austro-Hungarian Empires fell. Thus, in 1918 we were all within the same borders, one big national country.

[Davidu]

[Davidu]

Ok, so here it is: the map of Romania between 1918 and 1940.

[exatreide]

i can see nothing here..

[Davidu]

Now it works.  ;)

[Andrew]

So what is the boundary differences between 1918 and 1940? I don't see any.

[Davidu]

This is the map after WWII.

[Anathema]

They gave some of your land to Ukraine? That sucks...

[Davidu]

And some land to Bulgaria. In 1941 even Hungaria took some land (supported by Hitler) N-V the country.

In the areas they took, the Soviets deported the romanians as far as Kazahstan, Uzbekistan, Syberia, and they brought russians and ukraineans instead. Now there are only 40% romanians in Bucovina ( extreme north of the first map).

Well, yeah, that sucks. They did the same with Poland. They gave the Lvov region to Ukraine. and some other regions to Belarus.

[Anathema]

Poland got a piece of Germany in return, though.

[Davidu]

Well, we got BACK what the Hungarians took in 1941.

That's all. The soviets hated us for helping the germans, and after that for not being able to take us out and turn Romania into a wasteland as they did with Germany.

[Mihail]

Yeah,it sucks to be invaded.I know.Latvia,1941,September.Thousands of Latvians deported to Siberia or gulags,then replaced with thousands of Russians.Now,it most major cities in Latvia,ethnic latvians are a minority,and because of all the deportations,we'll have less people by 2050 than we have now.And worst of all,the fool Putin is refusing to pay the deported or killed victims families compensation(Including mine;my grandfather's brother,shot dead),because "it is no responsible for what it's ancestors did"  >:( And Putin was a director of some kind in the KGB! >:(

[Edric O]

That's all. The soviets hated us for helping the germans, and after that for not being able to take us out and turn Romania into a wasteland as they did with Germany.

Well, can you blame them? After all, the Germans murdered 15 million Soviet civilians (that's the equivalent of exterminating a country the size of Romania back then). If an invader slaughtered my friends and family, I'd probably want to turn their country into a wasteland too - and I'd be pretty pissed off at their allies as well.

They gave some of your land to Ukraine? That sucks...

*sigh* Nothing is ever easy in the Balkans... There are lots of disputed territories that have been traded back and forth between different countries for centuries, and where no particular ethnic group forms any large majority, so there are several present-day countries that can make legitimate claims to them. Basarabia, for example, contains about 60% Romanians and 40% Russians, and has been part of Russia for 151 years, part of Romania for 25 years, and independent for 12 years.

And some land to Bulgaria.

Sorry Davidu, but those territories were never our land. Their population is overwhelmingly Bulgarian, and Romania only received them in 1913 as spoils of war (since we had defeated Bulgaria in the Second Balkan War).

In the areas they took, the Soviets deported the romanians as far as Kazahstan, Uzbekistan, Syberia, and they brought russians and ukraineans instead. Now there are only 40% romanians in Bucovina (extreme north of the first map).

True. But on the other hand, there were no more than 55-65% Romanians in those areas to begin with (keep in mind that Bucovina had been part of the Austrian Empire from 1775 to 1918, and Basarabia had been part of the Tsarist Russian Empire from 1812 to 1918).

[exatreide]

Well thats simply why you should just give all the land back to the Turks. ;)

[Anathema]

The other day I saw in the news something about ethnic Hungarians living in neighbouring countries. The opposition wants to give them dual nationality so they can travel freely, but many are opposed. Ironicly this is the only situation I know of where people blame their own countrymen for wanting to steal their jobs :O

[Davidu]

Edric, the Cadrilater, was overwhelmingly turkish and tartar, not romanian or bulgarian. Well, yes, it was a mistake to take it... but as you said, it was a spoil of war. So why turn it down? On the other hand, it made from Bulgaria an enemy and not a friend, as it was until then. Shit happens.

Oh, by the way, "the Balkans", don't include Romania.  ;)  Actually the Balkans are some mountains in Bulgaria...

And we're not eastern-european either, geograficaly we're central european, but who cares?  :-

About the russians: well, I didn't say they had to love us, but they left the hungarians alone. They also send troops against them.

After 23rd august 1944 we send 12 divisions against the germans. We were the fourth force against them. That didn't matter, we were a defeated country, though technicaly we won the war. We pushed as far as Wien, Budapest, and the Tatra mountains and Czechoslovachia. That didn't matter either. Have you noticed that the finnish were left alone? They supported the germans, then they turned against them, as we did... but Mannerheim remained in office, while we kissed the soviets' ass and executed Antonescu.

WWII left deep wounds that are very hard to heal... That's what happened in Yugoslavia. The ethnic war. The Croatians and the Serbs wanted to settle the scores from WWII, when the croatians allied with the germans against the serbs. Both wars in Yugoslavia were "total wars" bent on exterminating the enemy.

[Anathema]

Not many European countries sided with Russia. Ukraine even welcomed the German troops as liberators. Romania switched sides though, maybe that's why the Russians thought that a turncoat is even less worthy then an enemy.

[Davidu]

Even russians welcomed the germans. Against Stalin. Against the bolshevics.

I know what you mean, but why did they leave Finland alone? No communist regime over there.

[exatreide]

Finland wasnt messed with becouse they had given the Soviets a real good bloodying a few years earlier, and i dont think Stalin wanted to watch his troops get trapped in a finish winter...

[Davidu]

Yeah, I know 25000 finnish losses at 2000000 soviet losses. But after WWII USSR had the most powerful army in the whole world.

[Caid Ivik]

I'm sure it would brake his heart...

Most of german satelite states revolted, when they found out what would Russians do to them if they would be against them, like in eastern Poland. Altough we can say, that some of us could already realize, that Hitler was planning something much worse.

[Davidu]

Yeah, I know... as I said, shit happends. Better move on, but never forget.

[K4^Raimund]

The situation is too difficult to understand, unless you live in Romania...The Hungarian comunity want's a slice of the motherland...but the Reds are to blame for the mess...since 1944 everything is wrong around here...

[Caid Ivik]

I can't say it's much different. We had reds too, and Hungarians are here in big numbers as well  ;D

[Edric O]

Even russians welcomed the germans. Against Stalin. Against the bolshevics.

Yes, they did welcome the Germans in the beginning... until the SS-Einsatzgruppen started slaughtering Soviet civilians, that is. Keep in mind that Hitler's plan was to exterminate over half of Russia's population and turn the rest into slaves for the German colonists that were supposed to turn Eastern Europe into an extension of the Fatherland. Needless to say, when the Russians realized this, they concluded that maybe Stalin wasn't so bad after all - and many of them turned into partisans to fight the Nazis.

I know what you mean, but why did they leave Finland alone? No communist regime over there.

Finland wasnt messed with becouse they had given the Soviets a real good bloodying a few years earlier, and i dont think Stalin wanted to watch his troops get trapped in a finish winter...

Also, Finland was a dead end. There is no point in wasting precious manpower and resources on invading a country that lies completely out of your way. The Soviets wanted to annihilate Nazi Germany, and in order to do that they needed to go through Eastern and Central Europe, not Finland.

The situation is too difficult to understand, unless you live in Romania...The Hungarian comunity want's a slice of the motherland...but the Reds are to blame for the mess...since 1944 everything is wrong around here...

You mean things were just fine before 1944? ::) Anyway, the "Reds" are hardly to blame for the Romanian/Hungarian conflict over Transylvania that has been going on for the past 1000 years...