Jump to content

Baron harkonnen sexuality

tleilaxu_spy

By tleilaxu_spy
in Duniverse

 Share

Recommended Posts

Major_Gilbear

Major_Gilbear

Posted
Posted

Aside from a brief encounter with a BG concubine, Tanidia Nerus (said to have been in fact an artificially rejuvenated Gaius Helen Mohiam), all of the Baron's sexual liasons have been homosexual.

According to the Dune Encyclopedia (written with concensus from FH), the Baron was very egotistical, and loved himself above all others. Specifically, he had a fondness for the child-self of his youth in him, and that is what he saw in the young male slaves; a reflection of his own boyish spirit. His preference towards the young boys/men is really his desire for himself.

His one heterosexual affair in his life is suspected to have been curiosity brought about by his self-indulgent lifestyle, and upon hearing of the sexual techniques of the BG, wanted to experience them. When the BG presented him with a mating parter, he didn't question or argue. Some claimed that even that was not what it seemed, and that in Tanidia the Baron saw his mother, again as he had done in his youth. Either way, the relationship was turbulent and breif.

Spirited away from Giedi Prime in the eighth month of pregnancy by the BG who feared for her life, Tanidia gave birth to the woman who would become Duke Leto Atreides' concubine.

So whilst, yes - the Baron IS gay, I don't think his motivations are necessarily homosexual; rather, they are more narcissistic.

I hope that helps answer your question  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TMA_1

TMA_1

Posted
Posted

hmm that is one thing I dont agree on with the DE. suprisingly, and this may shock you, but I prefer the outlook that the prequels give.

He was overwhelmingly homosexual. Not in the normal sense though, he was an extreme sadist and liked to dominate over his lovers. He is in a better term a pederist. He preferred boys over older men. I think this has to do with his control-fetish. I mean all he wants is control over everything. He even wants control after death, at first by supplanting the Royal House Corrino, and then later after death by possessing Alia.

Even then though, it is also simply because well.. he likes the same sex.lol I mean there is no getting around it. Like the quotes you showed, and even when he possessed alia he wanted to be conscious of her body when she made love to one of her lovers! sheesh! lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Major_Gilbear

Major_Gilbear

Posted
Posted

Why did FH make such a cool character gay?

IMO, FH wrote about sex in two ways; the pleasure of the experience in an induced sence (potentially like that of drug taking for example), and the process of reproduction.

From what I can tell, FH's opinion of homosexuality (as it is portrayed through the books) is that it falls into the first category - pleasureable self-indulgance.

Given this, it is not only fitting that the Baron be portrayed in this way, but also has other inferences.

Aside from his narcissism, the Baron enjoys making others squirm with discomfort, as the accounts of his debauchery 'tell'. Doing things that others find repulsive is another of his little pleasures, and he uses it as he does his other vices; to unnerve those around him so that he can be in a more assertive and dominant position, daring to do things others do not. In this sense, it also imbues the Baron with certain ruthlessness.

Speaking personally, the move to make the Baron homosexual was not only a clever move on FH's part, but makes the character all the more intriguing I think.

As usual in stories, the "bad guys" always need explanations as to why they are evil, even though the "good guys" are always shallow in their background, it being assumed that audience will always identify with the latter and need no justification for their good deeds. When one considers this, the Baron naturally needs explanation. By making him homosexual in addition to other factors, FH manages to be quite subtle in revealing the Baron's personality without having to spell it out to the audience.

I actually think the Baron Harkonnen is actually one of the Dune series' most interesting and well-written personalities, and it is a shame FH made no more like him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
styx

styx

Posted
Posted

I agree!!

seems so starnge that a person like him is gay. It doesn't fit him at all I think. I find it disgusting that he is gay, and still I find him a really cool person in other ways, so I wish that Frank would rather have made him straight.

please explain why you think "gays" are discusting?

Also what is wrong with putting a gay in a book? as well in TV programs? If anything FH was ahead of his time by creating not only a gay charater but one in a powerful position.

Also the fact that he was gay provided the storyline for why he objected the BG wanting to stud him.

Look a Leto Atraidies. The sisterhood needed him and they just provided a female knowing that he would eventually have sex with her.

The Baron however, if he was hetro or even Bi, teh sisterhood could also just provide him with a female to have sex with.

However, since he was gay there was the whole blackmail storyline in the prequals so that the sisterhood would be able to get their child by the Baron

Link to comment
Share on other sites
styx

styx

Posted
Posted

There is certainly no reason for discriminating remarks. As the saying goes, they "will not be tolerated".

But I don't think that Frank Herbert had the prequels in mind when wrote Dune - certainly not while creating the Baron.

Maybe not as such, BUT he did have notes that he refered to in the writing of the 6DUNE books. It is these notes that the prequals refered to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Emperor Harkonnen

Emperor Harkonnen

Posted
Posted

please explain why you think "gays" are discusting?

Also what is wrong with putting a gay in a book? as well in TV programs? If anything FH was ahead of his time by creating not only a gay charater but one in a powerful position.

Also the fact that he was gay provided the storyline for why he objected the BG wanting to stud him.

Look a Leto Atraidies. The sisterhood needed him and they just provided a female knowing that he would eventually have sex with her.

The Baron however, if he was hetro or even Bi, teh sisterhood could also just provide him with a female to have sex with.

However, since he was gay there was the whole blackmail storyline in the prequals so that the sisterhood would be able to get their child by the Baron

don't put words in my mouth. I did not say that gays are disgusting...I said that I find it disgusting that the baron is gay.

one reason why the baron is gay could be a thought in frank's subcounsiousness that since the baron is evil he is gay. this means that frank thinks that being gay is not way okay :P

I think this is more likely than that he had a higher tolerance above gay people than others.. in the 60's

Link to comment
Share on other sites
styx

styx

Posted
Posted

I did not say that gays are disgusting...I said that I find it disgusting that the baron is gay.

Ergo.

you should have worded it better. But again you are stating it!!!!

Read through what you have written (a SECOND TIME) it can only be interpreted one way. Now I might be British and an Engineer so I read things as-is to do my job but that say you find gays disgusting.

you find it disgusting that the baron is gay. Thus you would not find it disgusting if he wasn't. Thus what is determining the disgust at the character "Baron Harkonnen" is his sexuality

Anyway back on topic.I

Yes the baron was gay (as in he sleped with males). BUT he never had a relationship. It was more a power thing. Most of the time it was rape. Rape is not about sex it is about power. And the Baron was all about power and intimidation

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GUNWOUNDS

GUNWOUNDS

Posted
Posted

one reason why the baron is gay could be a thought in frank's subcounsiousness that since the baron is evil he is gay. this means that frank thinks that being gay is not way okay :P

ahhh i see where you are going with that.  So you are saying that FH is demonizing gays by making one of the lead villans gay?  Interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tinuviel

Tinuviel

Posted
Posted

Hmmm... It would be interesting to go through and find all the characters who were gay, and see if they are all supposed to be "evil". Can anyone think of another gay character? I can't off the top of my head...

But I must add that based on the other opinions FH expresses, he seems fairly open-minded in general. So I would be inclined to reject his making characters gay delibrately to portray them as evil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TMA_1

TMA_1

Posted
Posted

Well I wouldnt consider him a homosexual. He is a pederist, loves teen and preteen children. This is a whole new ballgame and speaks of his perversion, but also of something a bit deeper. See, he craves power, and because he is always on a search for it, it even involves his sex life. He wants to dominate and control all around him including his lovers. He literally gets off on power and control, and if he can somehow put that power and control in his love life than he really enjoys himself. I wouldnt call him strictly a homosexual, but rather a boy-lover. big difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
orlok

orlok

Posted
Posted

In my eyes, he just lived a hedonistic lifestyle.

He is obviously also an asthetic, and prefers perfect forms (ie his sexual partnes to still be unnaffected by age), as well as his penchant for plush surroundings and objects.

Think of the globe of arrakis he comments on that is in his study.

I think his predelictions are more toward the homosexual side, but if it was pure and pretty, i think he'd desire it.

As to making him homosexual to make him appear evil, well thats just nonsense. and if you do believ homosexuality is evil i suggest you get out more often. (And no, I'm not, i just believe in live and let live).

Sorry i just think bigotry is something to stamp out as we'd all be  happier people if it were.

rgds

LoK

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GUNWOUNDS

GUNWOUNDS

Posted
Posted

As to making him homosexual to make him appear evil, well thats just nonsense. and if you do believ homosexuality is evil i suggest you get out more often. (And no, I'm not, i just believe in live and let live).

Sorry i just think bigotry is something to stamp out as we'd all be

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.