Dude_Doc Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 Firstly, I think that after the WW1, Germany wasn't allowed to join the Leauge of Nations. That, plus the fact that everybody boycotted them. This helped German nationalism further. We learned from that. Our world today is different. Second, if Germany would have won the war, I think our world would look totally different. Nationalism wasn't only appealing in Germany, but in all other parts of the world as well. Hell, even after WW2, America still treated black people as slaves and as a "lesser race". It's funny to think that they went into war to stop racism, when they themselves 20 years AFTER the war still had their own restrictions and rules against black people. Makes you think...Anyways, Germany wouldn't just sit there and suck on it's victory, it would propagate racism and nationalism to every corner of the world. Hitler could do that with his own country, imagine what the world would look like today. Would there even be an internet? Free paper? Free speech? Freedom at all? I think the Allies didn't just free Europe, but saved the whole world as well.
nemafakei Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 "It's funny to think that they went into war to stop racism, when they themselves 20 years AFTER the war still had their own restrictions and rules against black people. Makes you think..."No, they didn't, the US went into war because they were bombed by the Japanese. No country fought on the grounds that Hitler was racist.
Wolf Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 I'm pretty much in agreement with TMA. It's been 60 years since what happened. People forget. I guess we can't expect the disgust to last forever.
Andoreion Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 I guess it's easier to forget if you live on the other side of the ocean, but we still live near the ruins of the Nazi Deathcamps. Many villages and churches here still have massive lists of the people who died during WWII. Some things shouldn't be forgotten.
Caid Ivik Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 Well, it was the bloodiest war ever. Such thing would be only very hardly forgotten. Maybe after another, bloodier world war. Altough we can see memorials for even older wars.
Wolf Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 Exactly -- what happened during this war should not be forgotten.And, Andoreion... isn't EWS on the European side of the ocean? Or, who were you referring to?
Andoreion Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 Exactly -- what happened during this war should not be forgotten.And, Andoreion... isn't EWS on the European side of the ocean? Or, who were you referring to?I was actually referring to the United States, which does not carry as quite as many scars from WWII as the European Continent. To be honest, I don't know how the British look back upon WWII. Many of their cities were bombed to the ground but they were never occupied by the Germans.
Dude_Doc Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 No, they didn't, the US went into war because they were bombed by the Japanese. No country fought on the grounds that Hitler was racist.Okay, but racism was a part of the reason. Not only racism, but nationalism too.
lowzeewee Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Racism wasn't part of the problem at all...USA just sat around in the war till they were awakened by Japanese bombers and the threat of Hitler when only Britain was left against the Nazis.Also, here in Asia, we still can't forget what the Japanese did. This is worse in China. The football fans in China even jeered at the Japanese footballers in the Asian Cup final yesterday because of grudges created since the Japanese atrocities more than 60 years ago.
nemafakei Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 "Okay, but racism was a part of the reason."Perhaps for a few, but I rather suspect that what with the information coming out of a warring counrty, you could only say that the suspicion of racism on that scale might have confirmed or sustained the resolve to go to war. Yes, Hitler's rhetoric was known to be racist, but he was merely picking up votes by saying what was in the minds of some others.But bear in mind that when the US forces came here, they were dismayed to find the British didn't generally care what race people were. So I'm pretty sure that the Americans, at least, did not enter the war with racism in mind."Not only racism, but nationalism too"Do you mean 'Not only Hitler's racism, but also his nationalism' or 'Not only Hitler's racism, but also American nationalism'?
Dude_Doc Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Yes, I mean Hitler's nationalism...Though, people today shouoldn't be blamed for what their parents or ancestors did. They are not them. The Chinese fans who booed on the Japanese players don't even know what their own country did, and keeps doing to this day. They have been brainwashed with the same propaganda about the Kuomintang, the Japanese imperialists and so on. Japan, on the contrary, is even more socialistic than China are: they have democracy.
nemafakei Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Well, yes, Hitler's nationalism did have an effect, because it was his policy of Lebensraum that started the whole war off!
lowzeewee Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 On one hand, it is easy to say that we can forget about what had happened since its so many years ago and its not the younger generation's fault but on the other hand, it is difficult to forget it since there were so many deaths...so what can we do?Also, it was very childish of the chinese football fans to boo the japanese players...I mean, this is sports, not war, so why link the two?
Dude_Doc Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 We must never forget. It's like forgetting basic math. It's essential to our history.
KALONY Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 hell yeah there r some realy strange guys in this board.when i rape little girls, but spend some money for ppl who need help....am i good than???btw. his growing up the econemy was a fake...he just was pumping money in the country....money wich the country never had...so the result was in the end some highways but a verry deep depression and inflation.i feel no shame for what my grandparents did, and all the others 2 generations before, but i still dont like them for that. the result is, that i dont like nationalism and racism evr and everywhere....here in germany, in the usa, in russia in israel all around the world.maybe its part of the human game, but i wont play it....hehe...LETZ PLAY EMP AS FRIENDS (hitler and stalin had can do a 1vs1 in the boxring 2...lol ...)KALONY
Dante Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 The hyperinflation was partially cured by Hitler's war effort in that it made jobs and helped to stabilise the economy. It wasn't caused by Hitler, but by massive loans from other countries, printing of a lot of paper money, and various economic smashes brought about by the Treaty of Versailles after WW1. The Depression and hyperinflation were there before Hitler was.
KALONY Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 hehe....just coz he did not start to print the money he didnt do better econemy.and if u look a longer time, on what he did, than tell me: is it good to put all ur money and power in production for war? for tanks bombs and all this stuff? ok, it may help u for a while, coz any1 has a job, but for what? for a war? is that good? a war will kill u and ur money for sure, that u can leaqrn all in the history.....and if u dont make a war, for what did u produce all these things??man, u live in a illusion....this cant be good in anywayKALONY
Dante Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 What does it matter? Repairing a shattered economy seems to be 'good,' even if it was for a war. The two events (the war and the rebuilding of the economy) may have been linked, but they are still seperate events. One benefical, the other not. Yes, the economy was improved, and then the war happened. Linked, but not the same. Some say that the war was inevitable anyway.
KALONY Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 its not linked??? man, where u life....the econemy was ONLY FOR WAR.....what do u need more?KALONY
Digital Guerrilla Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Hitler IMO had planned to do just the things he did (obvious) but maybe not when he had actually wished to execute those plans. It has been recently (some of you may have already knew of this information) found that Hitler suffered from Parkinson's disease in his later years which could explain why he all of a sudden made some of the choices that effected Nazi Germany's war campagin.
Anathema Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 The second world war was not inevitable- in 1932, that is. Hitler made it inevitable by building a huge army who's cost and needs would have ruined Germany if he had not gone to war (and thus creating even more need for tanks, arms, etc). The whole "reparation of the economy" was an illusion.I didn't know he had Parkinson, that would explain some of his fatal decisions, like putting the V1 and V2 programs on hold for so long. Germany had a pretty good shot to win the war in its early years, so I guess we should be grateful.
Wolf Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 Actually, I think after WWI, the conditions in Germany, Italy, and Japan made a second great war inevitable. If not Hitler, it would have been someone else.
Anathema Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 I have no doubt that Japan would have clashed with America somehow (Japan wasn't involved in WWI were they?), but I disagree about the European theater. Germany was dealing with a horrorible depression and would have needed a guy like Hitler to make it strong again and I doubt Italy would have gone to war without a strong ally like the Third Reich.
Wolf Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 I repeat, if not Hitler, than someone else. There were dozens, if not hundreds, of start-up political parties much like the Nazis -- the Nazis managed to come out on top. If Hitler was never alive, then another one of these parties might have emerged, or maybe the Nazis still would have won out in these battles. In any case, the outcome of that conflict doesn't matter, because each of these parties were essentially saying the same thing, rebuild, rearm, and get back at the French. Perhaps the holocaust and the master race were unique to Hitler, but the idea of returning Germany to the top or near-top in the European balance of power was a shared trait. A commonality between the disparate German political groups -- well, save for Weimar.*EDIT: To sum it up in one line, the prevailing attitude that helped make World War I -- the conflict between imperial powers -- inevitable was not totally erased after World War I, and, in fact, remained virtually the same with only little changes. The exact wording had shifted to "redeem our empire" from "conquer all empires."
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