Programmite dispersion after the Jihad

[TMA_1]

I took the term programmite from the DE, as i think it puts it all in a (somewhat generalistic, but good) nutshell.

what groups do you think stem from the jihad? what groups were ones that ran away from the anti-computer pogroms? and which ones have survived to the dune chronicals?

Obviously the Ixians, as they are mentioned to be one of the groups. The quasi confederacy of unnamed entities (probably in a form of large companies) that kept to technology, going near the fringes of the laws of the Great Convention.

Also I remember that there is mention that the Tleilaxu are one of these groups as well, and they too have technologies that could be considared dangerous to the conventions. (rumors of cloning and other things of that nature).

The Spacing Guild founded by Norma Cenva is another group that was chased away. This is aparent from their marriage with fold-space use as well as the fact that they have sanctuary planet(s). They have had these planets since their founding it seems and it just seems logical that it was originally to hide from the fanaticism of the jihad. There are many other reasons too.

Cna you guys find any more entities? there probably are more, and also can you add to the ones I have selected? or even question some of them or question some of the ideas I put above and correct them? please message if you do! :)

[Vanguard3000]

Well, after the Jihad, people began to use their minds to substitute what machines had once done for them.  The three "Great Schools" were formed:

-The Spacing Guild, who used Spice-induced prescience to navigate through Foldspace.

-The Order of Mentats, who used extensive training/conditioning, and drugs, to hone themselves into logically-thinking "human computers".

-The Bene Gesserit, who sought, among other things, to improve the genetic stock of humanity.

[Alexander_Ordos]

I don't think Ix'ians were considered going against the Convention. The thing that made them so...wierd... is the secrecy the Ix'ians casted upon themselves. They were as good as the only ones producing seriuos technology (Well there was House Richese before the times of Atreides reign). And in order to keep their monopoly, they lived underground, what would happen if someone aquired the Dominic Class Highliner designs? Ix'd be out of business. After the jihad, people became so fanatic, that they denied any use of technology whether it had A.I or not. So...they formed those schools, which are mentioned by Vanguard.

[Tio_Holtzmann]

Was the jihad the reason why even all the way down the line in Chapterhouse, there is a general negative reaction to the creation of cyborgs?  because it's part of the whole "man must not be replaced" thing?

[Alexander_Ordos]

Indeed, people feared machines throughout the galaxy, feared to be enslvaed again by them. Well the very word "Jihad" means smth fanatical, a war for a great common cause  ;)

[AeonGrey]

Are we talking DE or Brian Herbert prequels here?  Cuz if you read the DE section on the Butlerian Jihad and all that, I don't think it (the DE) actually says a thing about humans being enslaved or anything like that.

[TMA_1]

hmmm I think I ended up confusing people.lol

I meant groups that were only tied to those who made thinking machines before the jihad. The ixians are an example.

The learning schools were just an effect to a cause. They began because they were like, "hey! computers cannot do everything for us anymore." After the computers, robots, and thinking machines, the technologies still existed, it is a lie when people say they didnt, they just couldnt be manipulated by artificial intelligence. Hense navigators, who steered through space instead of super computers, and mentats instead of stratigical and political thinking machines.

I mean the DE explains it pretty well. There was foldspace before the jihad, there were technologies to help mankind in it's thoughts and actions. In fact it was probably a more civilized time, when House Control was relatively local, and big business and confederacies reigned.

I part ways from the prequels in many instances with this stuff as you guys know. Now I take a lot from the House Prequels, obviously not everything as some of the worst mistakes were made in those, but they still had some gems in there because they were still working with a lot of fresh info from frank, and that is aparent in a lot of the ideas (as well as the stupid idea of theirs to take a lot ot technologies and cultural aspects of Heretics and Chapterhouse, which is just plain silly, as well as many other mistakes). Still though the prequels of the jihad make the biggest errors to me because they are so loosely based on franks work that it is just nuts.

[Alexander_Ordos]

Oh now I see what are u talking about. Hmm , I think before the time of Titans, the A.I weren't that smart...atleast they didn't reach the level of Omnius or Erasmus. When Titans took over, as we know, they did that with the help of machine army, afterward, their goal was to strenghten those machines, because they ensured their reign. That's why, I don't think there were any A.I building groups...

[Dunenewt]

The Suk Doctors, Swordsmasters of Ginaz, and Richese (as opposed to Ix)

[NHJ BV]

About the School of Mentats: does anyone agree with me that the boy Erasmus is raising will found it? He is being extremely trained in logical thinking and has an actual AI to learn from. I remember the one chapter of the Machine Crusade made me think he would, the chapter in which they are trodding through the snow. I don't quite remember why I thought that, however.

[Alexander_Ordos]

Thanks for spoiling  :P

[Tio_Holtzmann]

when you haven't actually read the 3rd book, it's called speculating :P

[NHJ BV]

I hardly spoiled anything, and if you haven't read the book by now then you're not trying hard enough ;)

[Alexander_Ordos]

Well maybe it's not so easy to get the latest Dune books in Lithuania...I'm lucky to have BJ  :-

[TMA_1]

yeah it is hard, I totally understand alexander. my friend has the same problem. its all good :)

[Vanguard3000]

That's a good theory, NHJ BV.  Erasmus I think has always been one of the strong points of the BJ trilogy (although I think moreso in BJ then MC), and his young proteg

[Alexander_Ordos]

I hardly spoiled anything, and if you haven't read the book by now then you're not trying hard enough ;)

He he I have the MSC now  :P!!!

[Dunenewt]

The Suk Doctors, Swordsmasters of Ginaz, and Richese (as opposed to Ix)

Anybody got any comments??

[Harq al-Harba]

This is something I have been thinking about.