MSN Messenger 6.2 beware!

[Alexander_Ordos]

One of my friends always says, quite a smart thing for computer users: " Don't be lame and no shit will touch you". That means most of this psywaretrojanvirus stuff get's into you pc because of you. is it that hard to activate a firewall or just read a bit of install text? For noobs...well it's simple they'll get their system fucked up a few times and then they won't do same mistakes again.

[Kiyouta]

oh what a wonderful topic... don't forget to de-select two stupid options in the MSN messager installer. Microsoft are really gonna release software that screws up PCs... you ppl are too paranoid. Come on... WAKE UP.

[Timenn]

Yes they do... they can screw up your computer. And I believe none of us here are paranoid. And when my computer finally gets messed up totally, I just reinstall all, it just takes some time, and to prevent that from letting happening too often it is nice to have such warnings floating around the internet... That's all...

[Cyborg]

So you don't mind if someone broke into your house, and eat all cookies in your cookies can, while you do mind if someone breaks into your house and steals your tv... You will feel quite much the same, since someone broke into your house, a violation of your own private territory...

The copy protection software doesn't steal anything from me. It doesn't steal my tv. It rather restricts what I can do. It doesn't(apparently) give out information about me. Those who produced the cd would just not like me to extract the music data from the cd because in most of the cases, it would lead to breaking the copyright law(sharing it).

[Timenn]

Wrong, there is no real difference if it steals a object, or steals freedom to do something. Copying your cd music to your own music is completely legal, and you shouldn't be robbed off the ability to do that. So infact that is illegal in another way then just breaking into a computer...

[gryphon]

It rather restricts what I can do. It doesn't(apparently) give out information about me.

So do Blaster and Sasser. . .I take it you have no problems with them to ?

Those who produced the cd would just not like me to extract the music data from the cd because in most of the cases, it would lead to breaking the copyright law(sharing it).

I don't care what they like and don't like me to do with the disk. I am legally allowed to make a copy of it. . and they are prohibeting it. Not even stopping there, they are prohibeting me that option even without telling me they will install that software. They just do it and revoke admin rights on my PC. Legally that's taking permission of a electronical system without the knowledge of the owner. Which is against most laws who have a computer crime section.

[Cyborg]

This is sort of like the copy protection on game CDs... You claim you have the right to create a backup. Yes, you do, but you will discover that the backup won't work because of a copy protection(unless you remove the protection with Alcohol or similar tools). There's little difference between a pre-installed copy protection(gaming cds), and one that installs itself on your computer, as they set the same restrictions.

You're just mad because something happens with your computer that you do not have control of. You are like "This is my computer, and I will only accept what I want". Perfectly fine, remove the protection with a tool if you want.

[Timenn]

Did you even bother to read gryphon's post?

That one states exactly what the difference between those 2 kinds of copy-protection are...

[Cyborg]

Have you read it yourself?

Nowhere does it say the difference between an integrated copy protection and an installed one. It doesn't even mention it.

[Timenn]

Not even stopping there, they are prohibeting me that option even without telling me they will install that software. They just do it and revoke admin rights on my PC. Legally that's taking permission of a electronical system without the knowledge of the owner. Which is against most laws who have a computer crime section.

Isn't that enough for you?

[Cyborg]

They could've told you about it, sort of like an agreement, but obviously, they try to make it appear just like the copy protections integrated on cds. When I buy a game cd, I do not cry out loud because I only agreed to buy the game; not the copy protection on it... If your computer came with the sound file copy protection already installed, would you accept it then? Because that would be just like the game cd with integrated protection.

[gryphon]

are you shure you grasp the idea of it ?

installing software on anyones computer without the prior notice to the owner controler of that computer, even more if you need to aquire rights beyond the ones given to you by default on that system is a legal offence.

No matter what your personal opinion about that is.

I am still not clear on one thing, . . if most computer users are familliar with the installation of things, or should be as you have previously claimed. . . how come in the same time most of those users should be warned for not installing those extra features with MSN version 6.2 ?

[Cyborg]

I am still not clear on one thing, . . if most computer users are familliar with the installation of things, or should be as you have previously claimed. . . how come in the same time most of those users should be warned for not installing those extra features with MSN version 6.2 ?

You ask the same question in almost every post...

Because most people just click through.

---

And yes, I do grasp the idea of it. And I am being neutral here. No personal opinions about it. I don't even buy music cds, but would be quite annoyed if it was copy protected. Isn't there a mark on the cd telling you it has copy protection on it? If so, you agree to install it, partly when buying it, partly when running the cd. If you have no way to get information(without much effort) about the copy protection, then I agree that it's a legal offense.

However, most music cds with copy protection on them are labeled with it. "protected against unauthorized duplication," for example. That means that when you buy the cd, you know what's going to happen.

That's like if you were warned before clicking a link that the page you were going to would contain spyware. But it doesn't.

[gryphon]

You ask the same question in almost every post...

Because most people just click through.

So most people just clicking through the installation is your way of saying that most people are perfectly able to install programms ?

It seems more like Timenn's saying, that they just do it without knowing what it means. . .just blindly clicking as for them their is no other option.

Isn't there a mark on the cd telling you it has copy protection on it? If so, you agree to install it, partly when buying it partly when running the cd.

No, you never agree to that part.

Even because it doesn't have to be your system you are using the CD on.

You can have the right to listen to your CD on my computer.. . but you nor anyone else has the right to install things on it.

However, most music cds with copy protection on them are labeled with it. "protected against unauthorized duplication," for example. That means that when you buy the cd, you know what's going to happen.

No you don't. It says that the music is copy protected. Something we already know as it is legally.

Although that doesn't give the record industry the right to install software in that manner on your computer. The way they are installing is simply put not a legit way.

[Andrew]

I just wanted to give a heads up to something I almost clicked through, before I started reading. Even after I read the do you want to install msn toolbar, once I unchecked that I almost forgot about the other 2 boxes.

You have to be careful with these big companies, they tie so many things together they end up screwing the user over.

And then I installed an update for adobe reader (6.02 I think) and it auto restarted my computer when done installing, which resulted in some bad things for me. I think it gave the option to restart now or later, but it just restarted without me clicking "now".

[Cyborg]

No, it's legitimate.

As long as they put warning labels on the cds.

If you choose to ignore a warning, then that is your fault...

And, concerning the installers, I am against adding too much user interference into them.

However, The MSN Messenger one seemed ok. There was only one page there which had "extra options", as far as I remember(installed it quite long ago).

I think the toolbar was the only one checked. And for those who know little about a computer, the toolbar will be a welcome addition to their browser anyway, as it gives them access to things they probably didn't know about previously.

Those who know anough about a computer to don't want it, just uncheck it.

[gryphon]

No, it's legitimate.

As long as they put warning labels on the cds.

If you choose to ignore a warning, then that is your fault...

I was keeping this behind. . . mayby just to check your opinion about it .. . mayby for some other reason I don't know yet. ...

it has been known for a few weeks now. . and they even lost a lawsuite over the subject. All CD's that still have those features can be send back and will be replaced.

Think you can clear something for me and a few dozen other admins who where sharing the data about the case. How com you can say :

No, it's legitimate.

when cybercrime laws dictate that any software intervention that occures without the users permission is an act of mallware. And any attempt to gain software acces to a system other then your own clearance is punishable by law.

The software in this example [ and a lot of spyware to, hence the link on my part ] clearly follows those guidelines forbidden by law. [ then, no one is taking cyberlaw seriously but who cares :P ].

[Cyborg]

I was keeping this behind. . . mayby just to check your opinion about it .. . mayby for some other reason I don't know yet. ...

it has been known for a few weeks now. . and they even lost a lawsuite over the subject. All CD's that still have those features can be send back and will be replaced.

As I wasn't totally sure about this, I did a little research on it.

Most of the info was very vague, but some was clear.

They lost one lawsuit long ago because a cd was not labeled. Now it seems like people are able to return their cds to the store, which is a good thing. After all, if they can't copy them, that should be the rule(as you aren't allowed to return anything you might have taken a backup of...). I think Poland sued most of the big record companies, but I didn't get the outcome of it.

[gryphon]

Cyborg. . please stop trying to be so "smart". . the CD in question is the new Beasty Boys album. .. .seems like a long time ago to you ?

The reason why your research probably must have missed it is because most of the news get's filtered before it gets send out if it get's send out at all.

I am in one of the Dutch groups debating about things like this. Hence non-of those mails or press releases are publicly released...

[Cyborg]

The reason why your research probably must have missed it is because most of the news get's filtered before it gets send out if it get's send out at all.

I am in one of the Dutch groups debating about things like this. Hence non-of those mails or press releases are publicly released...

Well, when searching specificly about it, I found tens of public press releases... My previous search just included a word not present in this, and that was illegal... And it seems like why the album is bad is because it doesn't warn you about the protection, and just installs it in silence. Of course, that is not okay. I was talking about labeled albums...

Anyway, I think it's best to return to the original topic, which we were finished discussing long ago :P

[gryphon]

And it seems like why the album is bad is because it doesn't warn you about the protection, and just installs it in silence

the albums are not allowed because the last part. . "and just installs it in silence". . not because it doesn't or does warn you. A company can not sell records with illigit contents [ the software protection software ] and pretend that software is legit just because there is a warning on the label.

which we were finished discussing long ago

if it's finished. .then what should we return to then. . ;)

[Cyborg]

what are we discussing...  ;)

Well, it seems like it's illegal in some countries, and legal in some.

It doesn't actually boost the record sales, but I don't see the problem when you're warned. However, I think there was no warning on the Bestie Boys album, which really makes it bad when it installs in silence.