Mordechai Vanunu

[Anathema]

Vanunu was "freed" yesterday: he can't talk to foreigners, will never be able to leave the country and will be under continuous surveilance. Also he isn't allowed anywhere near embassies or diplomats to prevent him from asking political asylum.

As if 18 years of prison, 12 of wich solitary confinement, isn't enough for a man who didn't do anything so bad in the first place- he only revealed that wich everybody already knew, that Israel possesed nuclear weapons against international law.

Isreal says that they're afraid he'll reveal more secrets, but how could he? He hasn't set foot outside of prison for 18 years! This is not a matter of security, it's a matter of pride and arrogance- Israel just couldn't bear the thought that none of their security measures or their Mossad (or perhaps I should say "abduction squad") could stop them from revealing one of their most precious public secrets.

What do you guys think?

[leo]

I think he's a traitor. We both share the same wishes, but he shouldn't reveal secrets. He didn

[Caid Ivik]

However, Vanunu made something positive: what for would be israeli nuclear weapons, if no one would know about them? You can't intimidate without showing the threat...

[leo]

Yes it's true. Many people think that the Mossad is behind all this.

[Digital Guerrilla]

It presented Israel in a very unfavorable light in the international community not only was harm to the region but to Israel itself.

[TMA_1]

Israel is mature enough in my opinion to hold nuclear weapons. If the international community is so against israel, why cant israel do its own thing? Obviously the international community dislikes israel, so why should israel listen to a bunch of politicians thousands of miles away? That is what I think. This isnt am atter of pride. Israel isnt the most secure of nations, and doesnt have the freedom and grace to be nice like other nations. If a nation like Denmark or germany was in the same situation, I doubt they would act differently. Maybe not immediately, but over decades, they would be doing the same thing israel is doing. why all the attacks against israel? People on fed2k are downright harsh to the nation.

[ordos45]

1973, Israel supposedly had nuclear weapons already.  If they don't use them while on the brink of destruction, I think it says a great deal about maturity as a nation.

Now it doesn't sound mature of me to say this, but I'd have dealt with a traitor like Mordechai by placing a bullet between his eyes.  It wouldn't be politically acceptable, but really, when has that stopped governments around the world?

[Wolf]

If Israel wasn't mature enough to have nuclear weapons, a lot of us would be dead already.

[danielsh]

It's not a question of maturity or partisanship, it's a question of the acceptability of armaments. No nation, be it Israel or the United States, has a right to posses nuclear weapons. So in my opinion, this man was committing a noble act of civil disobedience, against enormous odds and with no apparent ulterior motive, to end Israel's possession of weapons of war and mass destruction. Labeling an action as "treason" doesn't automatically make it ethically wrong; if the nation in question is in the wrong, the treason would be right.

[Dude_Doc]

Aren't most old documents revealed today? Say, all the secrets during World War 2 are publicly aviable now, aren't they? Besides, Israel has probably much newer and better technology today... ever heard about the Corner-Gun? I read it in a magazine. It's a rifle that literally bends around corners, with built-in cameras that can see what's behind the corner, and at the same time protect the user from potential danger.

[Wolf]

I still think that with an intelligence service as effective and efficient as Mossad... well, let's just say that the secrets about Israel that get out are the secrets that Israel is ultimately okay having out.

[leo]

It's not a question of maturity or partisanship, it's a question of the acceptability of armaments. No nation, be it Israel or the United States, has a right to posses nuclear weapons. So in my opinion, this man was committing a noble act of civil disobedience, against enormous odds and with no apparent ulterior motive, to end Israel's possession of weapons of war and mass destruction. Labeling an action as "treason" doesn't automatically make it ethically wrong; if the nation in question is in the wrong, the treason would be right.

If he was a pure Idealist than it was

[leo]

I still think that with an intelligence service as effective and efficient as Mossad... well, let's just say that the secrets about Israel that get out are the secrets that Israel is ultimately okay having out.

Yes I think so too. The Mossad arrested Vanunu even before the article was published. And today it's known that when Vanunu got on the plain from Australia to London (before the interview) there were already Mossad agents on the plain.

[Anathema]

I think you guys are missing the point. Jailing him was a perfectly acceptable thing for Israel to do- but 18 years, of wich 12 in solitary confinement is more then enough. Still he can't walk the streets like everybody else. The official reason is that he intends to reveal more secrets, but there is no reason to assume there are things he didn't tell 18 years ago and even if there were that info would be outdated. I think the unofficial reason for keeping him chained is pride and arrogance.

[leo]

I think you guys are missing the point. Jailing him was a perfectly acceptable thing for Israel to do- but 18 years, of wich 12 in solitary confinement is more then enough. Still he can't walk the streets like everybody else. The official reason is that he intends to reveal more secrets, but there is no reason to assume there are things he didn't tell 18 years ago and even if there were that info would be outdated. I think the unofficial reason for keeping him chained is pride and arrogance.

Most of the countries jail people for life in this kind of cases.

[Digital Guerrilla]

The point was that Israel had the nuclear weapons "illegally" based apon then international law and Vanunu made it public knowledge that Israel was breaking this international law. 18 years is a long time to be imprisoned but it assured Israel that Vanunu could not reveal anymore of Israel's secrets by simply "outdating them". The sitution is easy to understand but agreeing on it depends on national motivatinal beliefs that are in the interest of Israel.

Many terrorist nations do the same things (build WMD or try to aquire the knowledge, illegally) but because of the political sitution in the region you should understand the major concerns. Israel is mature enough to have nuclear weapons but that is not the point the point requires much deeper thinking beyond Israel's maturity.

[exatreide]

He should be happy it wasnt in a time of war....Treason is punishable by death....

He had what was coming to him, traitors deserve no mercy.

[danielsh]

I wasn't aware that there was a monetary incentive; if so, then his action becomes somewhat less noble.

Tony, cut it out. Treason is an absurd crime. The government is capable of doing wrong, and people ought to be capable of opposing it. In this case, the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime at all.

[Digital Guerrilla]

Treason is to overthrow the government and Vanunu had no intentions to overthrow the government of Israel but to expose the fact that they were breaking international law concerning maufaucture of nuclear weapons.

I never knew of the monetary incentive but that is a claim that has to be back with actual evidence anyone can "say" that he was paid to do it to discredit is motives.

[lowzeewee]

No matter what he deserves to get punished.His punishment for treason is actually very forgiving considering that sometimes people get their lifes taken away for that and if lighter,a life sentence.

Most of his secrets that he might reveal might already be old stuff that maybe people now already know of.

[Digital Guerrilla]

Vanunu "was" jailed for the period of time that he was incarcerated for that reason among many more.  12-years in solitary confinment (on an 18-year incarceration sentence) is more than enough time to investigate who else was involed with him and how the information he had could effect Israel.

[TMA_1]

israel doesnt have the time,resources,luxury, and all around good graces to act the good guy. I can guarintee that if you stuck any other western nation in israels position, they would do the same, if not, more than what israel has done. It is one thing to say israel is wrong, which is totally alright to do, but it is another thing to attack israel for defending its existance. Israel is in a constant state of war. It is so bad, and there are so few people that they even require the women to fight in wars. There are few nations that do this, especially western nations. Do you know how many war crimes America committed while in a state of war? Lets face it, in peace time things are a lot easier. While in a state of war though people cant afford to do the right things all the time. In fact there were traitors during WWII and other wars in America, and they were always put in jail for life, or even killed. Sometimes even without the recognition of a court! This guy was thrown in prison, and given 12 years from what I can see in solitary. It is much better than what ordos said he would do (and what I would do most likely, as well as almost any nation out there in a war time) which is to put a bullet between his eyes. Nations have never favored traitors, even western nations. It is one of the few crimes that dont deal with killing, that demand execution.

[leo]

I'm not sure where can I find a proof but even the Times confirmed that they did offer him money and they even published the contract. I'll try to find some authentic sources. He didn't receive the payment because he was arrested immediately the day after the interview. Also, I watched a big program about his life, during the program many of his lecturers in the Beer-Shiva University were interviewed. Most of them said that by knowing him for many years they found out that he's extremely obsessed about money.

About the punishment, I repeat. His motive has no importance. Most of the countries imprisoned people like him for life while others executed (I'm talking about democratic countries), let alone they don't let them speak out to the press; Vanunu is allowed to and in the next year he's probably going to be completely free.

[Dude_Doc]

You could probably blame any country. I don't recognize any country on this planet who isn't innocent. Don't you think countries like China and North Korea are executing people for petty excuses, all who doesn't have a piss to do with secret weapons?

[Digital Guerrilla]

Vanunu is considered a tratior by many in Israel (and some here) but the Israeli government never executed him only imprisoned him that says something about how the Israeli government felt about his actions. He did not sell the secret on the designs of the Israeli nuclear weapon, he exposed that they had already done it. What is the review of all the information that he was supposed to supply Time with concerning the illegal Israeli nuclear weapons program? What was the contract with Time besides monetary reminbusment for his information?

Vanunu could be a traitor but does the Israeli government allow traitors to go free? I think for the most part he was just a political prisoner.