Homerun #2 for Israel

[GUNWOUNDS]

Wow Rantisi was appointed to replace the original Hamas leader who was shot by a missile... and so the israelis shot

[Anathema]

No pity for Hamas, but what is Israel trying to achieve with this? It's not deterent, quite the opposite in fact, and new leaders will rise anyway.

[ordos45]

And the Palestinian Authority is blaming the USA less than 5 hours later.

[Anathema]

Now I'm confused- I thought it was the jews who controlled the USA and not the other way around ???

[GUNWOUNDS]

No pity for Hamas, but what is Israel trying to achieve with this? It's not deterent, quite the opposite in fact, and new leaders will rise anyway.

So you are claiming that new Hamas leaders arent going to be feeling uneasy as they take their new position as leader?

[Wolf]

Yeah, even though new leaders may be brough to the forefront of the organization, they will rapidly run out of experienced, talented, and intelligent men as they are systematically eliminated. Worse still, much of what makes a leader in this type of group is reputation. Something that doesn't help you when you're dead and takes a lifetime to acquire. It is irreplacable, and many men with said reputations are getting killed.

However, this may just inspire individuals to go into a rage because of the death of men with such empowering reputations. Yes, this is a problem. Is it a big one, however? I have a feeling that Israel would be more than ready to handle a Hamas that engages in a massive, fanatical suicide strike. I believe that should more Hamas members wish to martyr themselves, much in the way it will be claimed these past two leaders have been martyred, they will fast run out of members willing to go to this length. Not all Hamas members are willing to die for the cause, and definately not all Palestinians. All this will do is separate those who are willing to die from those who are not.

[leo]

No pity for Hamas, but what is Israel trying to achieve with this? It's not deterent, quite the opposite in fact, and new leaders will rise anyway.

Actually there is a big shock in the Hamas, their leaders don't trust the person that sits next to them, they always blame each other for spying in Israel favor. Plus the leadership is moving from the territories to other countries, especially Syria.

[Wolf]

I just want to add to what I said. Remember when the first guy was hit by a missle? I wonder if that was like Unreal Tournament, or something, where the rocket just smacks the guy down and blows him up. The guy was just walking down the street with his 8 bodyguards and *foom*. Comical, really, but I wonder if that's what happened. If so, all that was left of that guy (and probably Rantisi, too) is some leaky chunks of meat.

[GUNWOUNDS]

I just want to add to what I said. Remember when the first guy was hit by a missle? I wonder if that was like Unreal Tournament, or something, where the rocket just smacks the guy down and blows him up. The guy was just walking down the street with his 8 bodyguards and *foom*. Comical, really, but I wonder if that's what happened. If so, all that was left of that guy (and probably Rantisi, too) is some leaky chunks of meat.

yes altho big parts of the body like the thigh, ribcage, and the head may stay intact and just be torn away.

:O

[TMA_1]

hmm, the jews dont control america earthnuker, why do you say that anyways?

Hamas deserves no pity, and what do you expect israel to do? cry for peace?

"They cry, "Peace! Peace!" but there is no peace."

If no peace will be achieved, war is the only solution, sad but true.

[thomas]

it's a joke, in the arab nations it is commonly believed the jews control the US

[VigilVirus]

Israelis are now terrorists, it's pretty obvious. I've started out with much respect for Israel, but the more I hear about the things their government does, the more I blame its establishment.

[Wolf]

I think that Israel has sort of given up the peace process -- but I cannot really blame them. The peace process was not working, and the PLA would promise peace while suicide bombers blew up buses.

[ordos45]

Have any of you ever seen the documentary "Shooting Conflicts"? 

The common people for the most part abhor the violence on both sides.  (Although Leo could tell you that.) 

In the documentary they follow an Israeli cameraman and a Palestinian cameraman, in their strange friendship.  Both though said something along the lines of "I don't want my children to be raised in violence".

So while the peace process is a hope, that seems to be fading among governments, almost everyone hopes for it to succeed.  If we let the moderates among normal citizens negotiate for both sides, something might get done.

[Wolf]

I think you are exactly right, Ordos. The people want peace, but it is the leaders -- Sharon, and Arafat -- who may not truly want peace. We know that Hamas' would love nothing more than to see Israel annihilated. And, as for Sharon, wasn't he the one who wanted to push further into Egypt and conquer Cairo during the war in which Israel had taken the Sinai?

[leo]

Israelis are now terrorists, it's pretty obvious. I've started out with much respect for Israel, but the more I hear about the things their government does, the more I blame its establishment.

This act is an act of terror?

[Wolf]

Terrorism seeks to create political change from murdering individuals irrespective of position in society or allegience for the sake of creating the fear necessary to fuel the intended political change.

I believe what Israel did more closely resembles outright assassination.

[leo]

Israelis are now terrorists, it's pretty obvious. I've started out with much respect for Israel, but the more I hear about the things their government does, the more I blame its establishment.

I persoanlly can't find what's wrong in killing a terrorist who killed dozens of people and probably will murder more, especially when he's the head of a certain terror cell.

If such an act is compared to terrorism then hell, I'll be glad to be a terrorist.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Wow look at this.... Israel has really scared Hamas......

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/18/rantisi.funeral/index.html

the new appointed leader is a secret...... hehehe

:)

[ordos45]

A week before the Mossad finds out who it is, if that.  But that's just my guess...secrets can't be kept long in large groups.

[Wolf]

If Hamas doesn't enact any really serious security measure improvements, I give the man two months at most.

[Caid Ivik]

Well, intimidating a terrorist group...you know, this is very interesting nation, these Jews  ;D

[GUNWOUNDS]

Well, intimidating a terrorist group...you know, this is very interesting nation, these Jews

[ordos45]

Clever, determined, willing to fight to the end to protect their nation. 

During the War of Indepence there was no IDF or IAF, just a few hundred volunteer farmers, with some of their weapons dating back to the 1800s.  They held off the armies of five nations and drove them back.

Another example of willingness to fight to the end was in the Yom Kippur War.  Barak (later PM of Israel) had a tank division, it suffered somewhere between 65-80% casualties and refused to retreat, and managed to hold the line in the Golan Heights.  Most Western armies would have run screaming into retreat at 35% casualty rate.

Somewhat related:  Today began the time the nation of Israel remembers the victims of the Holocaust.  Six memorial flames were lit, one per million.  The Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum still only has three million names of the six million dead. 

After the Holocaust it was sworn "never again".  There's another 'never again' phrase that isn't nearly as circulated in the West, "Masada shall not fall again".  Look up Masada, the events there recorded by Josephus, and you will see the depth of Israeli resolve.

[Caid Ivik]

During the Independence war, they received weapons from Czechoslovakia. Rifles, machine guns, ammunition. Order of Stalin, by the way. In most arab countries were then yet pro-west leaders, however Russians found out that arab market is much larger, so in next wars they supported the other side.

But still, it is impressive that such militia could withstand pressure from large regular armies. However now they stand against rather different threat. Harder to lock on.