The Occult

[TMA_1]

I got some info from ordos which is really interesting. It just got me thinking about my research on the subject.

Obviously the "occult" isnt just one group or one thing, but the name itself is used for any secret group that usually entails some sort of "cult-like" spiritual beliefs.

It seems to be growing, and honestly most occult beliefs can be very dangerous, but not all of em are, just a large group of them. Have any of you dealt with this stuff before?

It is usually dangerous to get involved, but there is a huge upwelling of this activity around Mount Vernon where I live.

Most of it is just silly teenagers who want to connect themselves with something secret, kinda apower trip of sorts. They call themselves "satanists", but are mostly just hedonists, who recieve pleasure for the sake of pleasure, and sometimes like to take pleasure by harming others mentally and even physically. They usually just grafitti walls with 666s and stuff, really stupid.

There are certain small groups though who are the real deal. They actually are very dangerous, but are so small and so seperated in small groups that they are relatively unknown. In fact they are usually overlooked and those that say things about them are laughed at. My dad while working at a hospital as an assistant pastor with actually a catholic priest had to deal with this stuff. It was an interdenominational type of thing, and the priest "father justine" was a wonderful man, really liked him a lot, but I was young.

Anyways there was this girl that got involved in this group, and she finally wanted to get out but she couldnt. She was chased around the country, and even though she would go in hiding so that it was almost impossible to close on her tracks, the people seemed to know where she was every time, really creepy stuff. Finally my dad and Father Justine sent her to a convent, dont know where she is, not even my dad and father justine knew where she went, the Catholics are very good with this kind of stuff, and I respect them a hell of a lot for how they can protect people, and give them sanctuary in time of need.

anyways this stuff is creepy, and a lot of people dont know but it is growing. Not only in the silly stuff, with people that want attention, but also with the real stuff, that is truly scary.

Have any of you heard of this stuff growing? the scary thing is a lot of these small cells of "real" satanists, arent full of creepy and poor people like you would think, but many of them are filled with lawyers and doctors, rich and well off people. The thing is they really do believe that Satan exists, and make blood pacts with it. They truly do recieve powers, and because of this they have huge egos, and can be dangerous. There are many cases of suffering from the groups but it is never taken too seriously. just kinda creepy.

I would like to say that there are some groups that are labeled as apart of the "occult" which are not dangerous at all, I am just talking about small groups that are dangerous.

[danielsh]

I disagree with your assessment that "they actually do receive powers." There is no rational reason why it would be at all possible for them to receive anything. But as to your question, I have neither seen nor heard anything of these groups. Bored men get together and make blood pacts with "Satan," eh? Oh, I'm scared now.

It's just crazy superstition. One should place no more faith in Satanism than in ghosts.

[Digital Guerrilla]

"They" recieve power but not like your favorite comic book heros. The "occult" is something that is hidden in mystery because it goes back to before man's creation. Satanism is not all about blood pacts and pentagrams it is much more sinister.

[Scott]

"They" recieve power but not like your favorite comic book heros. The "occult" is something that is hidden in mystery because it goes back to before man's creation. Satanism is not all about blood pacts and pentagrams it is much more sinister.

Pentagrams and bloodpacts are hardly sinister. I site the following.

Film Related to this Topic: Angel Heart, starring Mickey Rourke, Robert DeNiro and Lisa Bonet. Recommended.

[GUNWOUNDS]

I disagree with your assessment that "they actually do receive powers." There is no rational reason why it would be at all possible for them to receive anything. But as to your question, I have neither seen nor heard anything of these groups.

Bored men get together and make blood pacts with "Satan," eh? Oh, I'm scared now.

It's just crazy superstition. One should place no more faith in Satanism than in ghosts.

agreed.... fearing such things is childish ....

the only satanic people you should fear are Osama bin laden and Hamas organization.

Satan has endowed them with real power... its called C-4 plastic explosives.

[Digital Guerrilla]

"the only satanic people you should fear are Osama bin Laden and Hamas organization"

True they are satanic but those are hardly the only ones.

[Caid Ivik]

Human has some abilities, which are not known and biology lacks explanation for it. Strength of will is not yet fully observed, various occult practices are based on strengthening it. However, it isn't domain of neopagan and satanistic cults. Some buddhist ways are based on it, for example. Or for what are many christian saints, which resisted seductions or made healing and such miracles, honored? Another magic category is state of spiritual freedom. Take a bit of LSD or spend a week with guru to know what I'm talking about. But I'm not sure what is christianically evil on it, until it won't reach state of perverted orgy. Most forms of prayer (ie rosenkranz), are admired by Pope himself. And effects are same, maybe less intensive. Only dangerous may seem, we can say, magical art of persuasion, mind control. But for this are such cults uncapable.

[danielsh]

I don't think that "strength of will" is as mysterious as you make it seem. Much of it is simple science (e.g., the 'guru' who can lie on a bed of nails), and whatever is not tends to be a simple ability to ignore the signals one's body is sending. Have you ever avoided going to the bathroom for a very long time? Even though your body kept telling you to do so? Or have you ever left your hand on a hot or cold surface, even though your body was communicating pain? It's just like that, only to a greater degree.

As to Christian saints, there is no concrete evidence to indicate that their supposed 'miracles' were any more than hallucinations and/or lies. LSD is a hallucinogen, so called because it makes one hallucinate. Not perceive something supernatural, just hallucinate. It may be fun, and if that's your opinion then enjoy it, but it's not any more magical than peyote or marijuana.

The Pope also admires Catholicism and regular, talking-to-oneself prayer. Here's a little secret: the man is a) just a man and b) often full of it.

Mind control my right foot...

[Caid Ivik]

Science is to explain it and its relations to parts of body and enviroment. Word "magic" is always used for things, which await such explanation yet, tough we can't laugh at it that it simply doesn't exist. It happened many times that some people went to ie Lourdes with cancer and were healthy when returned. Thousands of such live even today. Of course, there may be scientifical explanation, but until there is no such, I can only call it a magic.

Also "magic" is a word used for personal abilities, which others don't have, or have not discovered in themselves. Reaching of trance like that one we can reach by chemical drugs with pure will isn't so easy, it needs training. Scientifically, still isn't known how the will works. Or when you feel human, which you don't detect by senses, but is close to you. Look at all okinawian battle arts, or scientology. Of course, I don't think it is supernatural, unless you won't agree that human itself is a supernatural being.

[thomas]

I don't think that "strength of will" is as mysterious as you make it seem. Much of it is simple science (e.g., the 'guru' who can lie on a bed of nails), and whatever is not tends to be a simple ability to ignore the signals one's body is sending. Have you ever avoided going to the bathroom for a very long time? Even though your body kept telling you to do so? Or have you ever left your hand on a hot or cold surface, even though your body was communicating pain? It's just like that, only to a greater degree.

As to Christian saints, there is no concrete evidence to indicate that their supposed 'miracles' were any more than hallucinations and/or lies. LSD is a hallucinogen, so called because it makes one hallucinate. Not perceive something supernatural, just hallucinate. It may be fun, and if that's your opinion then enjoy it, but it's not any more magical than peyote or marijuana.

The Pope also admires Catholicism and regular, talking-to-oneself prayer. Here's a little secret: the man is a) just a man and b) often full of it.

Mind control my right foot...

you should do research before you speak, it'll save us the pain in our eyes. In order to be cannonised a saint a catholic person must do lots of good in their life, and die. when they die they must have 2 miracles attributed to them, the reports of these miracles are studied by a team of 10 or so professionals (doctors, scientists . . .) who are not catholic repeat not catholic each miracle must be deemed a 'miracle' unanimously to be deemed a miracle by the pope.

so sorry man, LSD does not get you sainthood.

[TMA_1]

you guys dont know how "blood pacts" work. In fact it is a lot more sinister than it sounds. Basically there are certain extremely dangerous books out there, like the 6th and 7th books of moses. They usually come with a little metal rod or blade inside the hinges if it is a really fancy old version, there you read what to do and how to do it, basically you spill your blood on either the first or last page of the book, and by doing so you basically are saying that you and your future postarity are subscribed to "Satan". There are many books that do this kind of thing. I have heard reports, people explain that (and this is not really funny at all but scary) it is almost like the book in neverending story. Basically you become apart of what you read, and it becomes apart of your life. You become obsessed with it, then you become nuts about it. There is a huge ratio of suicide when people deal with this stuff.

as for the powers, it is pretty serious and pretty dangerous, heck many religions have this kind of power.

For example there are certain hindu sects in northern india that have followers which can walk on water, levitate, speak in different unknown and known languages, and even speak a language backwords in complete fluency, which is bizzare to hear. There are similar things like this in other "pristine" areas of the world like in southeast asia with the islands above australia. It isnt talked about much though for some reason.

These groups I have mentioned are far more sinister than you guys imagine. They are small, and are disconnected. They dont communicate with other cells and usually these cells count to only a few dozen. Like I said they are usually rich and well off, and can be dangerous. Most of the credability of saying these things went out the door when there was a huge "satanism" scare back in the late 80s and early 90s. My dad actually went on a few local tv shows calming people down, telling them that most of this stuff, if not all of it is just caused by a few pathetic teenagers that want to be apart of something. The acts caused by these hedonists were petty, spray painting 666's and pentigrams on church buildings, pretty stupid. In fact pentigrams arent even satanic, there are relatively few symbols they use, but there are some which I wouldnt bother posting, mainly because I dont know all of them and dont want to know them. It can be even dangerous to study about it just for the sake of knowledge.

Now I know some people think it is kinda funny, and that is understandable, but it is seriously pretty scary stuff.

[EWS]

Satan has endowed them with real power... its called C-4 plastic explosives.

Shouldnt that be America???

Anyway, the occult is deeply disturbing to me.  However, I believe that they should be given their own rights as religious groups.  Yet when they break the code of law, they should be punished according to our laws.  Life isn't about following one set of rules, it is about obedience.

For some reason, when I hear of teh occult, I think wiccan and ougji boards.  Or am I just being childish and mal-informed!!

[TMA_1]

hehe, I didnt mean you should fear the occult like freak out whenever you hear of it or get paranoid, I simply meant that it isnt something to mess with.

also Osama was not a satanist, I know what you were getting at that he is evil blah blah, but that is a foolish statement. In his mind he thinks he is right. He actually believes that the one true God is guiding him through this, I dare say, he has more morality than many here in America, albeit a twisted form of morality.

Also C-4 explosives are not of satan, but of man, who is even more evil.

hehe totally EWS. I used to think that wicca and those types of sects were of the occult, but they arent, you obviously know that. They are harmless.

I also totally agree that all religious groups should have their freedoms, as long as they dont harm other people. This is why groups like "The CHurch of Satan" and the like are NOT occult. In fact they are just atheists who like to piss the establishment off, they dont even believe that satan or anything spiritual for that matter exists.

Also many occult sects are relatively harmless to people, there are a few though that arent, and what they do is secretive, and relatively unknown as they can cover their tracks really well. The only people that deal with them are usually pastors and teachers of the bible, or those that are at the wrong place at the wrong time. Generally though, if you dont mess with them they wont mess with you, not always though if they have a motive.

[GUNWOUNDS]

hehe, I didnt mean you should fear the occult like freak out whenever you hear of it or get paranoid, I simply meant that it isnt something to mess with.

also Osama was not a satanist, I know what you were getting at that he is evil blah blah, but that is a foolish statement. In his mind he thinks he is right. He actually believes that the one true God is guiding him through this, I dare say, he has more morality than many here in America, albeit a twisted form of morality.

Also C-4 explosives are not of satan, but of man, who is even more evil.

hehe totally EWS. I used to think that wicca and those types of sects were of the occult, but they arent, you obviously know that. They are harmless.

I also totally agree that all religious groups should have their freedoms, as long as they dont harm other people. This is why groups like "The CHurch of Satan" and the like are NOT occult. In fact they are just atheists who like to piss the establishment off, they dont even believe that satan or anything spiritual for that matter exists.

Also many occult sects are relatively harmless to people, there are a few though that arent, and what they do is secretive, and relatively unknown as they can cover their tracks really well. The only people that deal with them are usually pastors and teachers of the bible, or those that are at the wrong place at the wrong time. Generally though, if you dont mess with them they wont mess with you, not always though if they have a motive.

if they are so rare and so secretive.. then why do you find it so scary?

Also explain why "knowing" about a certain symbol

[GUNWOUNDS]

Also i wanted to add that the levitation and walking on water, and speaking languages backwards and ones unknown by the occult members is probably a hoax.... and if it wasnt a hoax then they had to be demon possessed.

So if the power you are claiming that comes from satan is the willful alllowing of your body to be possessed by a demon... then i could see that.

I am sure that once a demon took over your body it could do many strange things.

[TMA_1]

I told you that it isnt scary like hide under the covers, freak out and kill yourself.lol it is dangerous, good grief.

Also powers can be given through posession, or even obsession, where the calling of demonic powers is possible.

Not only that but you are also correct about how satan isnt all knowing, as he is a creature inhabiting time. But, Satan does have an extremely good system of intelligence, and knows what is happenign that we dont. He can get information from somebody, and use that information so it appears that a person is clairvoieant. Also demons can do things to make a possible future happen, and make a future that is "foretold" happen by their invisible actions.

Now to people who dont believe in this, you guys probably think I sound nuts.lol That is what fiath is all about though.

[Dante]

The occult is about as substantial as most (alright, all) religions. In other words, a bunch of people who may or may not be otherwise ordinary following a nonexistant belief set down by someone else for their own reasons some time ago. Basically, the occult is religions before they get worse.

It is impossible to recieve 'powers' through demonic or satanic intervention because neither demons nor Satan exist; in the same way that it is impossible to recieve any similar from a deity. The only thing that may turn up is a psychological effect that can range from increased confidence through belief (after all, it is perfectly possible to believe in the nonexistant) to complete self-delusion verging on schitzophrenia and worse. For those of you wondering whether I'm talking about the occult or 'proper' religions here, I'm talking about both.

The occult: Symbols, praying to the nonexistant, hostility and percieved superiority to non-initiates, misguided belief in moral and/or logical truths, killing.

Religion: Ditto.

What's so terrible about a little bloodshed? If people want to do that, let them. It's not harming you, it's not harming them, although they might get a nasty infection. If they go on to murder someone through a belief that a devil of some form wanted them to, they are no more or less deluded than those who kill for a more 'benign' deity.

Frankly I don't see what the fuss is about. Though it can certainly be satisfying to find a book of curses/prayers and try them out, once (if) it is realised that there is nothing more to them, the logical person drops it in favour of a more pragmatic approach.

Hmm. That reply wasn't particularly well structured... Well I'm tired. The point's there. Somewhere.

[danielsh]

Thank you, Dust scout. This discussion is getting more and more absurd.

Satan? The occult? Wicca? For the love of all that is good and reasonable, cut it out! No matter what I put my blood on, "Satan" isn't going to grant me power. If people are "consumed" by such things, it's because they allow them to consume them. There's not even anything here to debate.

[nemafakei]

What frightens me is the way people can get sucked into these things, and can ruin their lives thereby. I've heard the accounts of some parents of people who were drawn into these things (and ended up many tens of thousands of pounds in debt), and that is what is the most dangerous thing; they're often directed at the personal benefit of the leader(s), whether they believe it or not (though they will inevitably seem to).

[thomas]

this thread is merely to discuss satanism and the occult. I don't think this board is absurd, but your misconceptions of catholism bother me.

but anywho, what about so called 'sacrificial rituals'?

[Dante]

They've been around for a long time, and indeed have some psychological basis that stretches back many thousands of years.

However, this isn't the point. Sacrifice is just like any other ritual, if a bit messier. It is the reason behind it that counts, not the act in itself. The Aztecs sacrificed hundreds of people on a daily basis, and at least twenty thousand on a single occasion. But they believed that this was the only way to get the sun to rise in the morning.

This basic belief, that death was required for the furtherance of life, does have some basis in fact, if not to such a scale. Sacrifice is perhaps the most sensible of rituals as it can be seen, and the effects can be examined afterwards. No matter which way you look at it, something has died. There is no uncertainty as there is in the case of giving money to a holy figure of some form.

[danielsh]

this thread is merely to discuss satanism and the occult. I don't think this board is absurd, but your misconceptions of catholism bother me.

I was simply going through a series of arguments that had been presented them, one of which was that one can have a transcendent experience by taking hallucinogenic drugs. My rebuttal of that ended up in the middle of some things about Catholicism, but the association was unintentional.

[thomas]

you should be more careful then,

I'm talking about those rituals today though.

[Dante]

Yes? It's still a rather messy but mostly harmless ritual with as little point as the rest of the whole thing.