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How Can We Punish the United States?


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You wait until Edric sees that...

Communism is democracy incarnate, Russia and China and indeed no other country on this earth truly follows communism (thanks Edric, I am wiser due to you).

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you hate Bush....just say it.

Why certainly.

I HATE BUSH!

Now, feel better?


And filecore, Russia gave up the guise of communism (not really communism, there never have been any true communist countries) 13 years ago...
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OT: Hmm, speaking of Russia and communism and I notice you have a quote from 1984 in your sig - if you want a book which ties all of these themes together (and indeed, brings in religion too, all the while being still an excellent read), it's the ultimate distopian novel, the father of 1984 and Brave New World and their ilk, while being more subtle.

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you know, I was thinking...why do more people world wide try to immigrate into the US above any and all other nations?

Actually, European countries receive more immigrants (compared to their population size) than the USA does.

Why do people constantly flee communist nations and try to come here?

First of all, there are no communist nations, and there have never been any.

Second of all, the overwhelmingly vast majority of immigrants who come to the USA are fleeing from capitalist nations. Like Mexico.

And those nations are actually more capitalist than the USA, because they don't have a welfare state.

You want to see the land of opportunity? Look at Brazil. It's much more capitalist than America. And thanks to this wonderful capitalism, 1% of Brazil's population has the opportunity to eat caviar and live in opulent luxury, while most of the rest have the opportunity to starve to death or keep on living in misery and inhumane poverty.

The vast majority of your immigrants are fleeing from more capitalism to less capitalism.

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I notice you have a quote from 1984 in your sig...

While we're on the topic of 1984 and being off-topic, I'd kindly like to point out that George Orwell was a communist.

Don't believe me? Read his biography.

He fought in the Spanish Civil War as a member of the communist organization POUM (Partido Obrero de Unificacion de Marxista), which was eventually betrayed by the stalinist allies of the Soviet Union. Orwell even took a bullet in his fight for socialism - he was wounded in the neck and was forced to return to Britain. His experience in Spain, and especially the stalinist betrayal, left him with strong anti-stalinist views. His books Animal Farm and 1984 were written to show the enourmous differences between stalinism and true socialism/communism. Unfortunately, the capitalists quickly claimed them as their own and started using them as capitalist propaganda...

"The Spanish war and other events in 1936-37 turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it."

- George Orwell

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i can guarantee that whatever country you live in, it was once taken over through war by your ancestors.

...which is exactly why property is theft. :)

As for the whole "communist countries" thing, Dust Scout and DukeLeto already covered it (and I've talked about it many, many times). Perhaps I should start a topic in order to make things clear once and for all...

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American people? Nothing. I know some americans (Friends of mine who live near boston pass a week in France with me). So, I have never against americans.

The only problem with USA is W. and his sycophants.. >:(

I HATE BUSH!

Ah!

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Cool, I know some people up in Boston, live a few hours from there myself.

But, anyway, thank you for clarifying, sometimes it worries me when people start going off on "Amierca"; you don't really specify who it is you're attacking. When you say "American imperialism", are you saying that the people want an empire? No, I don't think so, the people over here are pretty timid about that thought, regardless of political affiliation. Even many Republicans are moderate; look at John McCain, who briefly toyed with the idea of becoming John Kerry's running mate. So, before you guys go off on how bad the American empire is, make sure specify which portion of that America you're going after.

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Cool, I know some people up in Boston, live a few hours from there myself.

But, anyway, thank you for clarifying, sometimes it worries me when people start going off on "Amierca"; you don't really specify who it is you're attacking. When you say "American imperialism", are you saying that the people want an empire? No, I don't think so, the people over here are pretty timid about that thought, regardless of political affiliation. Even many Republicans are moderate; look at John McCain, who briefly toyed with the idea of becoming John Kerry's running mate. So, before you guys go off on how bad the American empire is, make sure specify which portion of that America you're going after.

Wenn i say US i mean Bush and the US goverment, i have nothing against American people.

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How Can We Punish the United States?

I think the best way is to stop trading with them, make a nice plan for trading with the whole world except US, this way they might finally understand they are not God, they need us. Cuz now Bush is acting like God, he thinks he can do whatever he wants and untill now he has succeeded.

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Dan, you are an American. As for Fedaykin; personally, I'm not quite sure what US military bases actually do over in Europe. I assume, having heard of and seen US forces training in tandem with UK, French, and German forces, that we collaborate our military knowledge for the greater good of both countries. This is actually pretty cool; Germany's air force still uses the MiG-29, because East Germany was outfitted with them. It provides a good opportunity for US forces to train using different types of aircraft, just as it provides the Germans the same opportunity to train using American fightercraft. As to who those bases might fight against? I don't know; no one really. I mean, who do you Europeans fear an invasion from?

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The American bases were builded to restore peace ! But actually, there is no war in Europe (exept ex-Yugoslavia) ! Yes I mean it an invasion ! We, Europeans have paid our detts  with Marshall's plan !

I hope than, a day, Americans and Euopeans will walk together  :); but if Bush and his friends, It's not possible >:( !

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If the rest of the world imposed sanctions on USA then obviously they would suffer the most, Rest of world may suffer some initial problems but would reestablish trade links with themselves. what does america produce that can't be got elsewhere?

Removal of all oversea bases would cripple America military strength even more that economic sanctions. with out these bases military action would be nigh on impossible due to an inability to resupply any operations effectively.

Main problem is why would we want to punish the US in the first place as many actually agree support many of their actions.

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If the rest of the world imposed sanctions on USA then obviously they would suffer the most, Rest of world may suffer some initial problems but would reestablish trade links with themselves. what does america produce that can't be got elsewhere?

Agreed.

Removal of all oversea bases would cripple America military strength even more that economic sanctions. with out these bases military action would be nigh on impossible due to an inability to resupply any operations effectively.

Agreed.

Main problem is why would we want to punish the US in the first place as many actually agree support many of their actions.

The thing is, not just about cutting America off as "punishment" but also disassociating the rest of the world from the USA (not totally, maybe, but a bit at least) so that we don't become/remain so dependant upon US trade or defence.  I think there should be a balance and having one country dominate over a cluster of others is obviously NOT a balanced state of affairs.

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I disagree with the crippling of America's military strength, alchemi. The United States' 14 aircraft carrier battle groups would still be able to maintain long-rage military operaitons without the benefit of bases. Trust me on this one, the last time we started talking about US carrier battlegroups, I posted each ship, class, armament, and fighter complement.

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I disagree with the crippling of America's military strength, alchemi. The United States' 14 aircraft carrier battle groups would still be able to maintain long-rage military operaitons without the benefit of bases. Trust me on this one, the last time we started talking about US carrier battlegroups, I posted each ship, class, armament, and fighter complement.

Awesome.... plus the ships carry Tomahawk cruise missiles...

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Trade with the US won't stop, because there are both European, Chinese, Russian and all those other rich ountries trading with them. Sure, let's say we killed of the trade tomorrow. The only ones who would loose would be the EU. Trade would continue with China and Russia etc, because they also have much to offer one another.

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