"No" to Euro currency.

[Dunenewt]

Just because your country can't fight its way out of a paper bag doesn't mean other countries can't. We didn't get royally assed kicked seeing as how we sent an expeditionary force (stick that in your dictionary and smoke it) and we retreated in Dunkirk in one of the most amazing military operations of World War Two. The Wehrmacht would have been destroyed if they came over to Britain. You don't understand the British mentality. Everyone would take a weapon and attack the Germans if they came over whilst people in your country were most likely to high on drugs to realise what was going on. Also have you heard of North Africa where Montgomery and the 'Desert Rats' destroyed the Germans and Italians before D-Day?

[Apollyon]

Nice color DA.

Holy crap!

Oh my god I'll never live that one down! You've really humiliated me! Oh no! I'm doing it again!

::)

[Andrew]

Hey now lets stop fighting over colors!

:-*

Maybe the whole world should have a single currency. and all have the same time zone.

[Apollyon]

and all have the same time zone.

Lol... I sincerely hope that was a joke... :P

[Andrew]

Well it kinda was, we do have the GMT time which is kinda a univeral time zone. (I think)

[Atomic Mitten]

As I said in a previous post, I wish people would stop making sweeping statements about things they obviously don't have the knoweledge about.

Both political parties in the U.K. have over the last thirty years ruined this country.

There are far more cases of poverty now than ever before.

A strong currency isn't always a good thing.

Alot of foreign businesses are closing factories and moving production to cheaper parts of Europe.

The reason being the strong English pound, which makes our exports too expensive.

The actual Infrastructure is falling apart in England, due to years of neglect, by successive governments.

The profits have been milked from our industies, very little investment took place, to enable the future prosperity of our industrial base.

There are pro's and cons for joining the Euro.

Nobody really knows what will happen, if we do join.

England is also very close to Denmark and Holland/Netherlands, not just to Norway.

I don't understand why that was stated ?

One thing though, people seem to forget just what the second world war cost this country, in terms of financial loss.

All the money and equipment that was lend leased from America, had to be paid back !

Whereas England in it's wisdom wrote off debts from certain European countries, for political reasons.

Englands greatest asset up until now has been her peoples fairness to others, that fairness is slowly diminishing.Probably because people in this country are fed up of helping everyone else, with their hands held out.

It is time that the U.K. looks after it's own people for a change ! especially it's older generation, if it wasn't for them, we most certainly wouldn't have the freedom now, to discuss political topics, on a forum over the Internet.

If you want to really know what it was like after the war for the people of Europe, then ask a former East German, what it was like to have your friends and even family, reporting your actions to the stasi.

You can't apreciate the freedom you have, because you've never known anything else.

As for the vandalism in this country, why destroy your own country from the inside ?

Why litter it's streets, roads and lanes with rubbish ?

I will never understand the mentality of people who are just too damned lazy, to put it in the bins provided.

Even if the bins don't get emptied often enough, due to the failure of local government run services.

The money is running out here, with so much on credit, I wouldn't be at all surprised if another financial crash happens, like in the 1930's.

The scene is already set.

Having got that off my chest !

No one that isn't English born, sorry British born, can understand the British spirit, we never give up !

so we shouldn't start now, the peoples voice in England must finally be heard.

[Atomic Mitten]

Jesus, why not start another war !

This is getting out of hand, you don't have to be so defensive !

And throwing insults is not what a debate should be about.

To be honest, alot of what's been said is bollocks !

If Adolf hadn't started a war on two fronts at the same time, he would have won.

Also he was an Austrian, which alot of people seem to forget, back in Austrian history they fought alot of wars, that de-stabilised the whole of Europe.

Which eventually led to both wars the first and the second.

Try reading some history books, alot of history books.

I studied these topics, I have talked to numerous people about it, including East Germans, West Germans, Russians,Poles,Dutch,Austrians,Belgians,Americans,Canadians.Even to a Gurkha!

They were there, so I got to hear alot about how it was for different people, from all over the world.

I wish that you could maybe learn one thing as I did,

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing !

Don't judge others too harshly, you might not know all the facts, to make a balanced decision.

Jumping to conclusions is after all a very human trait, is it not?

[Anathema]

Just because your country can't fight its way out of a paper bag doesn't mean other countries can't. We didn't get royally assed kicked seeing as how we sent an expeditionary force (stick that in your dictionary and smoke it) and we retreated in Dunkirk in one of the most amazing military operations of World War Two. The Wehrmacht would have been destroyed if they came over to Britain. You don't understand the British mentality. Everyone would take a weapon and attack the Germans if they came over whilst people in your country were most likely to high on drugs to realise what was going on. Also have you heard of North Africa where Montgomery and the 'Desert Rats' destroyed the Germans and Italians before D-Day?

That's it, F_ck you Newt. I'll answer you this time and then you can STFU, because this is off topic anyway.

Your little expeditionary force was a total failure- you said it yourself, they were forced to retreat at Dunkirk, where they lost a shitload of material and personel.

I'm not saying that the Brittish army lacked courage or mentality but their numbers were fewer and German weaponry was at that time superior to anything the British had. If the Channel would magicly have fallen dry you'd have been steamrolled by the Wehrmacht, and that's all I ever said.

I dispise Thatcher because she's the example of anti European sentiment. The best way to summarize her foreign policy would be "let's not get involved with those damn Europeans to much, God didn't create the Chanal for nothing". She jabbed at Germany with references to their war past all the time for no reason at all. In fact, it was because of her anti European policies she fell out of favour, even in her own party.

Plus her economical policy was a down right failure, wich is why Labour got so popular in 1990.

[Nyarlathotep]

You guys should stay on topic. I don't see why and how this could turn from a Euro discussion into a history lesson.

Besides Newt, You might want to minimize the bashing of others (countries included)..

[Dude_Doc]

Did I say that Sweden WILL change to the Euro curency, but it will be around 2013?

[Dunenewt]

I'll post my opinions which I will do whatever you two say as despite your 'Landsraad' ranking you have no seniority over me as I have been at this site longer and you seem to be treating me the same way you would treat a new member. What Earthnuker posts is utter bullsh!t from the start when he said that Britain didn't have the fourth largest economy. He should get his facts straight. Maggie Thatcher obviously a good PM otherwise she wouldn't have lasted as long as she did. Especially after her excellent handling of the Falklands War you can't say you can disgust her or is that because you want to become one with us and make us lose our individuality as you will lose yours. It's not right that after saving the european countries we now have to be ruled by them.

[Nyarlathotep]

Slow down dude. I don't have any seniority over you, nor have I claimed I do. I asked you guys to stay on topic. I never said Newt stay on topic. The only reference I made towards you alone is to minimize the bashing, which isn't out of order is it ?

I haven't stated that either you or Earth is right. I just asked all to stay on topic :-

I honestly don't see the reason to drag in the Landsraad. If you want to discuss the Landsraad, feel free to IM me and I'll gladly discuss (or open a new thread if Gob allows it).

[Atomic Mitten]

Newt, did you read my posts or not ?

your turning this discussion into something personal, for something that happened nearly 60 years ago.

You said your only young ? how old were you when Margaret Thatcher was in power ?

Or are you basing your opinions on what your dad thinks ?

;)

[Anathema]

Newt, I asked you why you thought that Brittain was the 4th largest economy but you didn't answer. If you look at this list you'll see that it's only the 6th economy (data is from 2002 so they could have gained on France in between but definitely not on the others). It's you who should get your facts straight.

Secondly, I don't care how much you love Thatcher. What I stated about her was pure fact. She lost her influence in the party and politics because she didn't improve the economy as she had promised and for her anti Europeanism.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Bleh, I can accept the EU but still, I liked the old currency better. Ofcourse it has advantages if you travel to a other country, but if they won't settle the prices of products then the Euro must get out no matter what.

Besides, the government is already sticking money into useless crap. (Example: Holland)

[Apollyon]

My Economics school text book says 4th and that's not based purely on GDP. Plus what you say about the British being "steamrollered" isn't true. The BEF took very heavy losses, that's true, but there were many other British armies stationed elsewhere, including the Home Guard itself which still remained intact.

Oh and on that list it says 8th, not 6th unless I'm reading it wrong. ???

[Dunenewt]

Reinforcements have arrived 8)

I'm not basing my opinions on what my dad thinks because we have very different opinions, except of course like most British people he doesn't want the Euro.

If you ask most British people they will say Maggie Thatcher was a good PM aswell.

Britain shouldn't join the Euro or sign the European Constitution. FULL STOP!

[Atomic Mitten]

Well when your dad gets to pension age and he finds out that his pension is no longer linked to the inflation index,then he can blame good old Margaret Thatcher,she abolished it ! ::)

[Dunenewt]

Can we have Nema's opinion as he is the most respected British member of this forum.

We'll see how long Tony Blair and the Labour Goverment last.

[nemafakei]

As far as Thatcherism is concerned, the Conservative party felt that the next election was unwinnable under Thatcher. Hestletine was vying for leadership, and aggravating rifts where he could. The British public had had enough of the same leader for so long, and the 'threat of socialism' which brought her to victory became more and more distant, leaving her ethos somewhat out-of-place.

Blair now has the stigma of spin, and without a miracle, he will now have the reputation of the PM who conned Britain into going to war. He was elected on the principle that Britain was sick of the Tories and their sleaze; spin will inevitably be to Blair as sleaze was to Major, with the added problem of Blair's complicity therein. And, just as a recession forced Major to increase taxes contrary to his pledges, faltering public services contrary to Blair's promises will do for him. Next election will see close to a hung parliament or, for Labour, worse.

The recent by-election (loss of a relatively safe labour seat by a 29% swing to the lib dems) demonstrates this.

Concerning the Euro:

In the present system and in current conditions, Britain would probably not benefit from the Euro, since the interest rates and so on suitable for the rest of the EU isn't what is necessarily suitable for Britain.

[Edric O]

These Eastern European countries who have so recently fought for their freedom will not give in to easily and sign awar their sovereignty to a foreign body such as the EU. Sure they will join it but they won't all agree to sign the European Constitution.

Hahahahahahaha!!! You don't really have a clue about the popular opinion over here in Eastern Europe, do you?

People over here LOVE the European Union. We want to be accepted into full membership as fast as possible, and most of us see it as a privilege and an honour to join the Euro and the European Constitution.

The age of the nation-state is coming to an end. Patriotism died in 1945. Now it is little more than a rotting corpse. People like Bush foolishly try to raise it from the dead, but even they cannot stand against the forces of history. No one can. Patriotism may start twitching every now and then, and we may have to shoot another bullet into it to make sure it stays dead, but it will never again be any more than a rotting corpse. In this matter at least, the victory of the Left is absolute.

So you have a choice, my dear friends: Embrace the future or be crushed by it.

[Dude_Doc]

Patriotism didn't die. Just take a look at France. They are patriotic. They love their language. Every other country has to learn english, while France is satisfied with the French language. Many French people love their country.

[Edric O]

But they no longer hate Germans, nor do they have their old vendetta over Alsace and Lorraine any more. This is what I mean. Many people still "love their country", but not so much as to want to kill other people simply because they come from an "enemy" country.

[Dude_Doc]

I don't see how patriotism includes hate for one another. That's nationalism you're talking about.

[Atomic Mitten]

If Patriotism is dead, then how come so many Games are based on WW II ?

BF 1942,WWII Command and Conquer,etc, etc.

This only serves to prolong the memories and the hate felt to other nations.IMHO.

Did anyone notice, that just before the latest Iraq war, that TV stations in the UK, started showing old war films,especially channel 5.

I think this was an attempt to prepare people for what was to come,very sneaky.