Spacetravel before the Spice???

[Nefud]

The book 'House Harkonnen' 's storyline says, that before the Guild a guy named Yanshuph Ashkoko discovers Spice on Arrakis. In 201-208 (before the Guild)is the Butlerian Jihad, in which the thinking machines are destroyed. After that Tio Holtzman (from Ix) invents the space-folding generators. Then Norma Cenva plans the first Heighliner. And after the Guild (on Rossak) a Sayyadina discovers a plant, which's sap allows Sayyadinas to unite their minds thus they can carry the remembrance of the other Sayyadinas. The Zensunni wandered from one planet to the other (including Rossak), and they settled down on Arrakis/Dune. (with the help on the Guild's Heighliners!!!)

That's all.

PS: After Guild (between 14000 and 14929) the Ixians re-invent the navigational machines (sorry for the rough translations, but I only have the translated Dune Chronology and not the English one) which breaks the monopoly of the Guild.

The navigational machines have been invented by Chobyn (from Richese). He sells the invention to the Harkonnens, but he gets killed by the Baron. (This is from House Atreides.)

[jacobdouds]

Someone should make a detailed FAQ on the timeline of Dune.

[TMA_1]

Like I said before they had navigation machines before the jihad that would predict the mathematics for the holtzmen fold-space engine. Before that they had to  go through high sublight speeds like in the Destination:void books. read the locked part of my post. :)

[Dunenewt]

a timeline would b a good idea

ne volenteers

[TMA_1]

heres what I think it is

Before about 7000 b.g. All transport was done by sublight travel. using hibernation as a means of sustaining people till they reach the destination.

during around 7500 b.g. With the wave effect and stuff was founded by holtzman the fold-space engine was made. the contruction of navigation machines was complete and fold-space travel became possible.

during the butlerian jihad which was about 100 to 80 b.g. all high computer technology was destroyed. the fold-space engine could not navigate till the finding of the spice. the guild found that the spice can cause prescience in individuals. The first navigators evolved and fold-space engines were again used but with organic navigators.

During the rule of the tyrant king Leto II the rebuilding of navigation machines took place. Leto abolished the practice till his death. the remaking and all around working of them came back into existance.

This is rough but its how I think it works:)

[nemafakei]

Sounds right.

A minor note - Paul was a tyrant, not Leto.

[quoudam72]

Nema I think he means Leto "the worm" II, Paul's second son who was referred to as a tyrant sometimes.

[nemafakei]

I know. But Leto merely inherited his power - Paul took it by force.

[Nefud]

TMA_1: you haven't read my post cautiously.

1.:the spice is discovered.

2.:the Butlerian Jihad from 201-108

3.:the invention of the space-folding generators

4.:the planning of the first Heighliner

etc...

[nemafakei]

www.orlok.co.uk

Orlok has a timeline on his site... see how that compares with your own views.

[TMA_1]

I go with the DE timeline. it states that holtzman lived much much earler then the butlerian jihad. His inventions as well were much longer before the jihad and they even had suspensor technology before holtzman. Fold-space engines were before the jihad. read the DE. I go along with it and the books dont disagree. they had fold-space engines before the jihad. and machines to control them. only after the spice was found that the fold-space engines were back in business. I dont like the tio holtzmen idea personally. I like the ibrahim von holtzmen story. It makes a lot more sense to me.  it also makes sense to frank herbert's books. I am not saying the prequals arent good I think they are amazing. I just believe they were invented a long time before the jihad. basically agreeing with the DE on this one. his theories unified the dark ages of the universe. that includes communications and space travel. which was from 7000 to 200 b.g. :)

[TMA_1]

A tyrant is a ruler that is dictictorial. It comes from a greek word that means ruler but has been used in a wrong way to where it means a bad ruler. Leto the second is called a tyrant because frankly he was an ass to everybody. but what everybody didnt understand was he was doing it for a reason. to protect humankind. he loved humanity enough to do what nobody would ever do. live a life of being alone for thousands of years and to conquer to look like an evil man. just to protect humankind. Its like a dad. sometimes the dad does stuff that doesnt make sense to us whe nwe are stupid teens. but when we look back on it, it was for the best:)

[Morden]

Leto II was teaching humanity a lesson, it took them thousands of years to realise the lesson which he was teaching them,

mankind was stagnant before Leto II's death the empire of 1million planets was not growing,

what Leto II, did was closed off everyone to there own planets, gave them boring peaceful lives,  

he controlled them to the point where as soon as his grip was released people wanted to break away and that is what the scattering was,

the scattering created diversety in the human race which is what Leto II saw as the only way to save it

[Nefud]

OK everyone, now I ask the most important question which has to be asked: do you follow the original timeline (by Frank Herbert) or the "apocryphal" view of DE??

Here's my personal opinion about this: imagine that you're the writer who creates Dune (and Duniverse).

After you publish Dune (and Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune) your fans create DE with good intentions to give answers to the questions asked by the readers. After this you create Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse:Dune in which you make statements opposing DE because you want to follow you own ideas.

DE is a good thing but it became a little bit useless when Frank Herbert wrote the last 2 Dune books. When Frank Herbert was informed about the DE he said he likes the idea but then he didn't follow the DE pattern.

He created his own universe and I think he wanted to answer all the questions askes by the readers...

[jacobdouds]

It was for the best as Frank was a better universe maker then the DE guy.

[TMA_1]

Okay Franks universe is fiction.lol how can you say something is canon when it is a fictional universe anyway? not logical. second. Frank was going to write with doctor mcnally on the butlerian jihad. His ideas must have been valid before the first dune universe. Frankly though from what I have seen of hte prequals. although I love them there are so many mistakes. so many things that destroy the validity of the books being from frank herbert's writings. I think that before  the Dune books written by frank. DE is where its at. And doctor mcnally is an extremely good writer. Just as good as frank in my mind. you people that say he isnt as good havent read the full DE.

[Nefud]

I didn`t said that. Unfortunately I haven`t got to read DE (but I`d really like to) therefore I cannot tell you my opinion about it.

I just said that FH wrote Dune and I`m following HIS ways.

[GhostHunter]

yes they did move sorta like Star Trek but its mentioned in the pre quels that it took months or even years to travel without the spice in ships, during this period was the Jihad also. Until next post, Vilgent.

[TMA_1]

where did it talk about that in the prequels. must have missed it.

[Caid Ivik]

Space travel... Haven't you heard about Gagarin, Armstrong, Bella and others?

[TMA_1]

no no this startrek like travel. they had warp drives?lol what exactly was it? if you cant tell me then tell me the page number I want to see this bad.