America out of their depth

Ice_Cube · July 19, 2003

It seems that America are thinking about asking the UN for help in Iraq. HA! I have two views on this.

1. America are going to have to do this and Iraq hate them and the war is too expensive for their precious economy. So if they call in the UN then that will take some of the economic pressure off and reduce the amout of resistance in Iraq. I feel that this is Americas mess that they have created, they ignore the UN when they didn't need them and now they are thinking of crawling back because they are out of their depth as no-one wants to help them in their unjustified war. Let America take the rap as they fully deserve it (instead of other countries clearing up their mess).

2. If they go to the UN it would be a massive kick in the face for Bush as he so readilly ignored them in the forst place. This would show that America can NOT disregard what the world thinks and would be a benifit to the world if they go to the UN.

Caid Ivik · July 19, 2003

I don't know why you all talk about that war as unjust just because it wasn't started by direct UN resolution. If UN had some kind of constitution where will be said when it is and when is not just to intervene, than ok, but the world is still in anarchy.

What does lead you to think that USA will call UN for help? They did it in february, unsuccesfully...

Ice_Cube · July 19, 2003

I heard a report on the radio news saying that America were discussing the option.

I will not get into the argument of the war being unjust or not as it has been argued til kingdom come, but my point was that America ignored the UN and that is NOT the way forward. (especially if America do not wish to cause more hate).

Caid Ivik · July 19, 2003

Well, UNSC made several resolutions calling for Saddam Hussain to show evidence that he dismantled chemical weapons program, which took its victims in the 80s. He had time, but then he just invited some people to look how nice palaces he built. He was unrealistic, USA lives in fear, they were able of anything.

Ice_Cube · July 19, 2003

I don't live in fear of invisible weapons? EVERY other country was opposed to war appart from UK and Austraillia (who are now appologising for it).

Caid Ivik · July 19, 2003

Iraq is full of terrorist camps. Only near Baghdad were three, all linked with Hamas. Of course, your puny Britain wouldn't be even scratched by them, but what when Hamas buys some barrels of yperit from host? Israel is a fellow ally, also from Hamas it is only a step to Al-Qaida, not saying they could have direct relations with Iraq as well. But if Saddam had already destroyed all those things before, why he did such foolishness as laughing at UN resolutions and US threats?

Ice_Cube · July 19, 2003

your puny Britain wouldn't be even scratched by them,

LOL. Did you even think how "full-of-your-self" thats sounds?

I hope the UN doesn't help you, so you can wallow in your own mess and realise that you are NOT superior and you have to realise that you are NOT liked by the Iraq people.

nemafakei · July 19, 2003

"USA lives in fear"

Paranoia, Caid, slight difference. Fear implies that it's seriously threatened, and in turn that it's trying to defend itself.

The US army on the ground seems to have a servere problem with their atitude to their job. If their job was to depose Saddam Hussein, they've done it. If their job was to guarantee freedom for the people of Iraq, then they should start by taking off their damned helmets, and putting on berets. They should try to look less like an occupying army and more like a police force.

The UN should offer to send large teams of teachers of Arabic to the US army, and make language classes a proviso for more aid. At least they could learn their P's and Q's in the language of the locals.

(NB I think it costs about 150 million pounds / 200 million dollars per day for the US's continued presence in Iraq. That's what... 50p per american per day? No wonder they want to get out. Hmph.)

Acriku · July 19, 2003

The US army on the ground seems to have a servere problem with their atitude to their job. If their job was to depose Saddam Hussein, they've done it. If their job was to guarantee freedom for the people of Iraq, then they should start by taking off their damned helmets, and putting on berets. They should try to look less like an occupying army and more like a police force.

That's rediculous! Take of their helmets? A few British took off their flak jackets and look what happened to them. It's unsafe and irresponsible as a professional soldier and human being.

ethan · July 19, 2003

ah...i think USA going over to iraq is just stupid...they havent found anything and probably wont that incriminates Iraq on USA's accusation. (i mean the "weapons of mass destruction")

nemafakei · July 19, 2003

I'm not saying take off main body armour, just the helmet. If you're approaching someone supposedly trying to keep the peace, you don't want to be talking to a face hidden by a massive, two-inch-thick obstruction.

Ice_Cube · July 19, 2003

"USA lives in fear"
Paranoia, Caid, slight difference. Fear implies that it's seriously threatened, and in turn that it's trying to defend itself.
The US army on the ground seems to have a servere problem with their atitude to their job. If their job was to depose Saddam Hussein, they've done it. If their job was to guarantee freedom for the people of Iraq, then they should start by taking off their damned helmets, and putting on berets. They should try to look less like an occupying army and more like a police force.
The UN should offer to send large teams of teachers of Arabic to the US army, and make language classes a proviso for more aid. At least they could learn their P's and Q's in the language of the locals.
(NB I think it costs about 150 million pounds / 200 million dollars per day for the US's continued presence in Iraq. That's what... 50p per american per day? No wonder they want to get out. Hmph.)

I think nema has hit the nail on the head here. And it didn't help the American armies image when they started raising American flags everywhere (which shows they FELT like invaders and conquers) before being told to take them down as it may look "incorrect", they do have an attidute problem.

Acriku · July 19, 2003

I don't think it is time to take off any armor, as it is heated in Iraq right now. Shrapnel that could otherwise have been deflected would go straight in, or a stray bullet, etc.

Ice_Cube, they put an Iraqi flag on Saddam's statue, how's that for invaders?

Ice_Cube · July 19, 2003

they also raised flags at other periods too. And how would you feel if Kenya started pushing you around and started sticking the Kenyan flag up on your nearest statue?

Acriku · July 19, 2003

If I truly needed their help, then I would cheer for my saviors! Hip hip Hoorah for Kenya!

nemafakei · July 19, 2003

The British took off helmets withing a week of taking Basra.

"I think nema has hit the nail on the head here"

I accept that may be a slight danger if helmets were removed...

But seriously, don't you think an attitude change would save more lives than might be lost? I mean, most accounts I hear each time a soldier is killed involve the americans overreacting anyway! And try to compare the number of civilians dead to soldiers...

Most of the recent interviews I've seen with US soldiers show them wanting to be out of Iraq, and you just have to look at the angry expressions on faces to know why they're disliked.

Caid Ivik · July 19, 2003

your puny Britain wouldn't be even scratched by them,
LOL. Did you even think how "full-of-your-self" thats sounds?
I hope the UN doesn't help you, so you can wallow in your own mess and realise that you are NOT superior and you have to realise that you are NOT liked by the Iraq people.

Well, this was pointed against Blair, who seems to play where he shouldn't. USA had some mess with Al-Qaida, so they try to erase them from the world. When they'll make it to Buckingham you won't say so. But Iraqi are also full of joy their tyran is out. They are just impatient when they will have new rulers, just those must make some compromise. Making a new Iran would be a suicide for USA. Iraqi think that USA will solve all of their problems now. There are some hard points: dismantled half-million army, which hasn't no work now. Bands of partisans fightning for a dead man. Ajatollahs trying to take over power. Water shortage. Let's wait a year how it'll be done. No country reconvalescented from war in three months.

Sardauker-Kirov · July 19, 2003

I smell partisans........

And those partisans has Turbans on...........

The_Sadukar · July 19, 2003

Caid, have you seen Saddams decapitatedhead, I have not and until I see, I don't belive he is dead

Caid Ivik · July 21, 2003

Politically, he is dead. Everything is now on the hands of Americans or muslim activists. No one fights for the hated dictator now.

Ice_Cube · August 2, 2003

I recently heard on the radio that if America are going to do their job properly and act as a peace force, they would have to remain in Iraq for 5 years. This would tot up a bill of 3 trillion dollers for the tax payer. I just hope the oil grab was worth it ;D

Dante · August 2, 2003

I don't.

Egeides · August 2, 2003

An excellent article on the subject is about India refusing (after many debates):

http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-2-95-1389.jsp

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