Atheists have no morality!

[Acriku]

Fools! It says so in the bible that atheists are fools!

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" (Psalm 14:1, KJV, and Psalm 53:1, KJV)

How could these people with no belief in their hearts for God have morality?! They can't! They are set out to destroy our civil country, to disrupt peace, and make war on us God-fearing citizens!

Ok, I'm sure you get what I am saying. Surprisingly, this is not a concoction of my mind. It is what many theists feel, having gone through intense propagation methods and consistent reasons for feeling that way (through what they are taught). This is tragic. So, if anybody were to come by this thread and feel the same way, let me just show you an interesting bit of information that sheds a new light on the subject.

Studies: Atheists Supply

less than One Percent

of Prison Populations

by Dale Clark

* Index: Atheism and Awareness (News)

* Home to Positive Atheism

Received July, 1997

It's surprising how many people remark to me, "You're an Atheist? You must have no conscience about committing crime then." Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, if we examine the population of our prisons, we see a very different picture.

In "The New Criminology," Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith say that two generations of statisticians found that the ratio of convicts without religious training is about one-tenth of one percent. W.T. Root, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh, examined 1,916 prisoners and said, "Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character," adding that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers were absent from penitentiaries, or nearly so.

During 10 years in Sing-Sing, of those executed for murder 65 percent were Catholics, 26 percent Protestants, six percent Hebrew, two percent Pagan, and less than one-third of one percent non-religious.

Steiner and Swancara surveyed Canadian prisons and found 1,294 Catholics, 435 Anglicans, 241 Methodists, 135 Baptists, and one Unitarian.

Dr. Christian, Superintendent of the N.Y. State Reformatories, checked records of 22,000 prison inmates and found only four college graduates. In "Who's Who," 91 percent were college graduates; Christian commented that "intelligence and knowledge produce right living," and, "crime is the offspring of superstition and ignorance."

A survey of Massachusetts reformatories found every inmate to be religious.

In Joliet Prison, there were 2,888 Catholics, 1,020 Baptists, 617 Methodists and no prisoners identified as non-religious.

Michigan had 82,000 Baptists and 83,000 Jews in the state population; but in the prisons, there were 22 times as many Baptists as Jews, and 18 times as many Methodists as Jews. In Sing-Sing, there were 1,553 inmates, 855 of them (over half) Catholics, 518 Protestants, 117 Jews, and 8 non-religious.

Steiner first surveyed 27 states and found 19,400 Christians, 5,000 with no preference and only 3 Agnostics (one each in Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Illinois). A later, more exhaustive survey found 60,605 Christians, 5,000 Jews, 131 Pagans, 4,000 "no preference," and only 3 Agnostics.

In one 19-state survey, Steiner found 15 non-believers, Spiritualists, Theosophists, Deists, Pantheists and one Agnostic among nearly 83,000 inmates. He labeled all 15 as "anti-Christians." The Elmira, N.Y. reformatory system overshadowed all others, with nearly 31,000 inmates, including 15,694 Catholics (half) and 10,968 Protestants, 4,000 Jews, 325 refusing to answer, and no unbelievers.

In the East, over 64 percent of inmates are Roman Catholic. Throughout the national prison population, they average 50 percent. A national census of the general population found Catholics to be about 15 percent (and they count from the diaper up). Hardly 12 percent are old enough to commit a crime, and half of these are women. That leaves an adult Catholic population of 6 percent supplying 50 percent of the prison population.

Author Chaz Bufe responds:

This [last paragraph] is wrong. If he's going to subtract the women from the Catholic population, he necessarily has to do it for all other religious groups too. That would leave the Catholic percentage at 12 percent, not six percent.

[Inoculator9]

Well, as often as this is true, I'd like to say that many are gracious enough not to act as you described. TMA and Edric for example, respect my religious ideas.

Unfortunately, few people make the distinction between actual staunch Atheists who believe in mostly nothing and those atheists that are simply non theist. In this manner, many different versions of atheism are generalized as eveil and immoral.

I believe that if atheism as an independent "religion", I use the term loosely of course, that an accepted doctrine of morality should be adopted by atheists. This is obviously far off, but what the heck ;) Just my 5 bucks on the subject.

[Acriku]

I only hope there are more theists who do not think atheists are bad.

And I'm certain that atheists making atheism a religion would make a civil war between atheists.

[Inoculator9]

Not quite what I meant Acrikuy, which I meant to imply when I said I use the term loosely. What I meant was a universal moral doctrine accepted by a majority of privately registered atheists. Those who did not approve the doctrine can follow it more liberaly. Not like atheists can excommunicate other atheists ;)

And I find that if your good intentions are made clear, any theist can like you, as an atheist.

[Acriku]

Oh ok Inoccy, misread that.

Making a universal code would be good for all humans to follow, but for atheists alone - wellllll that would put baggage on the word atheism. Maybe there should be a universal moral code for a private organization, that atheists just "happen" to be a part of, and everybody could join ;)

[Inoculator9]

Ok Acrikuy, again I wasn't 100% clear. My meaning was for the formation of something like the "Atheist League" which accepts a specifc moral code. Those who support it are Atheist Leaguesmen and those who aren't are just atheists :)

[Navaros]

it is true that atheists have no morality

but don't feel bad. because *most people* have no morality

those who label themself with religious affiliations yet who do not actually believe or obey the religion that they hypocritically affiliate themselves with also have no morality. a quick glance will prove to you that over 90% of the people on this very site who claim to be "Christian" in fact could not care less what God, Jesus, or the Bible have to say about anything. this sort of immoral hypocrite accounts for probably 90% of the population of mankind. in the same proportion you see it manifest in fed2k, so it is in society as a whole

therefore, being a moral-less atheist makes you no different than the average human being.

if you read the Bible, you will see that humans were always immoral, hypocritical, evil freaks of nature. humans will naturally do what is evil, and fight against any cause that is morally correct. this is the way it has always been, and always will be since humans are such ****-ups!

the only people who have morality are those who actually believe, respect and obey what their Holy Book commands of them. that is very, very few.

[Acriku]

Darn, I guess I'll have to make up my own Holy Book to get morality!

[Inoculator9]

Well, Navaros, you're wrong. The subject needs little more clarifcation.

[Navaros]

akriku:

at least i haven't seen any evidence so far that you are a hypocrite. it's more respectable to be an immoral person like you than it is to be an immoral two-faced hypocrite of a person like all the "Christians", "Jews" who do not obey their Holy Books are. they claim to believe in God and care about Him even tho they do not. that makes them far worse than you. not only are they immoral, they are also deceitful lying hypocrites!

if i were you, akriku, i would get to know everything the Bible says about all the hot topics of today. like those extensive verses i posted in that ordos45 thread that got Dungeonized --- and then any time you encounter one of these hypocrites who claims to be a "Christian" yet disagrees with what God/Jesus has declared to be fact; you can rub their hypocracy, lies, and immorality back in their face and prove that you are a superior person as an Atheist.

[Inoculator9]

Interesting, if ont somewhat disjointed statement...

Define morality Nav.

[Caid Ivik]

Being fool doesn't mean being bad. From our view, it is very hard to understand that someone can reject pure existence of something. It sounds foolishly for us. Don't take it as an insult, but you know that Bible is written in rather expressionic style. But with the name of the thread, as well as with Navaros, I don't agree. It is individualistic, and there is only God to judge it.

[Edric O]

Acriku, show me one theist (besides Nav) on these forums who thinks that you have no morality.

[Acriku]

Being fool doesn't mean being bad. From our view, it is very hard to understand that someone can reject pure existence of something. It sounds foolishly for us. Don't take it as an insult, but you know that Bible is written in rather expressionic style. But with the name of the thread, as well as with Navaros, I don't agree. It is individualistic, and there is only God to judge it.

Caid, this is what I am talking about:

The Atheistic Fool

First, there is the atheistic fool. Repeated twice in the Psalms are the words: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" (Psalm 14:1, KJV, and Psalm 53:1, KJV). But in Hebrew the word "fool" actually means, "There is no God for me. "This is the atheistic fool.

Now, I believe that every person believes innately that there is a Supreme Being. To be an atheist or an agnostic, you have to block out of your mind the realities of birth and life and death and the entire universe. Who can look at the heavens and read all that the astronomers tell us and see all that our satellites have discovered, without believing that there must be a Supreme Being behind this universe with all its galaxies?

Then there is the practicing atheist. Many people are not really believing atheists, but they are practicing atheists in that they live like atheists. They profess to believe in God, but they live as if there is no God. They believe in God with their minds. They may go to church, but they live as though God does not exist.

In Proverbs we read, "Fools despise wisdom," (Proverbs 1:7, KJV)

BillyGraham.org

Sadly, this is not a rare opinion. Just ask any highschooler in America that is a theist what they think about atheists. I should do that for a project, to see the results.

Acriku, show me one theist (besides Nav) on these forums who thinks that you have no morality.

I can't read people's minds, so I said "if anybody..." Is there anybody here that feels the same way (except Nav)? My two first guesses would be sneezer and emprworm. It's too bad they don't come here anymore.

[nemafakei]

I think, Edric that he's referring to more than just the forum.

The problem is that many accusers would judge by their own standards, perhaps thinking "If I didn't believe in god, would I be immoral if it benefitted me?" - and, if they're accusing you on grounds only of Atheism, I take it they'd answer yes. Which only goes to show they are probably more immoral than you...

[Caid Ivik]

Acriku, what does it mean in hebrew, ask leo, he will know it better. Fact is that all translations, including Hieronym's, have an equal word to "fool". But the point is that only fool says to himself that something doesn't exist. Do you understand? It means human, which try to "kill" the mention of God in his mind by selfsuggestion. This is a foolishness. That quote is a heretical selfdescripting, I think written by some calvinist.

[Acriku]

There are many atheists that have never had the chance to know god, so they aren't fools in your way, yet it says they are in the bible.

[SurlyPIG]

What I find more common than the atheist = no morals perception is the perception that atheist morals are subjective and somehow theistic morals are not, despite the fact that they are barely defined in some cases.

As an atheist, the highest rules/commandments/laws I coose to adhere to are laws as defined by the branches of elected governments. Has anyone actually seen the way those laws are defined? They leave almost nothing to the imagination. There's a reason there are so many books in law offices, you could several large trees worth of paper making print that defines every law, whereas the Ten Commandments, for example, can legibly fit on a wallet-sized card. Now which one looks more objective?

Even still, any laws/commandments/rules should be subject to your own common sense and logic-driven conclusions. I hate to pick on Christianity again, but in the list of commandments, blasphemy comes before murder. Even if they're on and equal plane (and in most denominations, the punishment is the same), what sense does that make? That would be like me placing the same value on parking regulations as child abuse laws. A girl I know that goes to a Catholic school had to pray for two hours because she said the words "Oh my God" (breaking the 2nd commandment). Now how much weight does that really carry? Yet, to the Bible, it's right up there with murder.

[Caid Ivik]

There are many atheists that have never had the chance to know god, so they aren't fools in your way, yet it says they are in the bible.

If you read my previous post you would understand. But of course, TMA is right, you do only a speak...

[Acriku]

I read your post again and it doesn't talk about what I talked about, so what's the deal?

And what did TMA say? I can't understand those last words.

[Navaros]

ACElethal, you shouldn't speak about stuff you know nothing about, ie: the Bible and Emperor etc.

The God of the Bible is an angry jealous God. He says so quite clearly many times over. He is a tough guy. He does not tolerate any nonsense, and will not be mocked. He places His worth above everything else because He is the most important thing in the universe. If you created the universe, would *YOU* tolerate miniscule, filthy, immoral, repuganant creatures that you made to disrespect you by taking your name in Vain etc.? k bad example, *you* probably would, but most normal people would not. it is perfectly reasonable for the Head Honcho to call the shots and demand respect for Himself as one of the most important laws.

that blasphemous girl should have been expelled for the semester. she got off amazingly easy.

[Caid Ivik]

Navaros, if it's true that you are ethnical Hungarian, then I understand your calvinistic view. But God gave life to all people, not only some "worth". Why should he even make some unworthy persons? Leave these dualistical nonsenses for your Emperor battles to distract newbies. God is jealous and can tolerate evil falling on someone, but NEVER dooms. Only we can doom ourselves.

[Inoculator9]

Well, Navaros has just dumped some fuel onto the argument of God's perfection :P

What I find annoying about arguments such as the ones quoted by Acrikuy, is that they show no perception of the world as a whole. A hell of a lot of people are looking into the sky saying wow, thats nice. Instead of saying, bang up job God :P

And Caid, I didn't find rereading your post any more enlightening then Acrikuy did... perhas the language barrier, perhaps not. Your intended point was not made clear.

[Caid Ivik]

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" - I was writing a description as I've found it in my Bible. It isn't pointing that all atheists are mentally inferior, but that it is foolish to selfsuggest nonexistence of Him. Like it is foolish when I say to you, that you don't exist. Persons, which haven't found Him, or lost a contact, aren't in this. Bible is a serious book.

[Acriku]

Your thinking of god as absolute, when he is not. You know in your heart he exists, and you look at things with that in mind. Open your mind Caid...