The Idea of GOD

[zilents]

This is not a thread about prove or dissapprove the exsistence of GOD but more likely the advantage and disadvantage of people who believe or not believe in GOD! Which side do you pick, and is the advantage morelikely overcome the disadvantage?

Lemme give ya a start:

I believe people who believe in GOD has more chance of survival in life because they have "someone" to rely on when something bad happens. It gives them hope, peace of mind when problems come, when peoples are not there for you. And some of the bible verse are very good for personal development.

Anyone watch Signs movie? and remmember a very good line of Mel Gibson when hes talkin with his nephew in a couch watching TV? I don't remmeber the exact line but I get the idea of this thread from it...

[DjCiD]

Do you mean the one were he says that everyone falls into two categories?

Either you believe everything that happens has a purpose for happening, everything is connected.

Or you believe every thing that happens is just a really good coincidence.

[Caid Ivik]

Well, with God it is difficult. You try to rely one Him, but He wants you to have all initiative.

[Acriku]

There are many disadvantages and even some advantages to believing in a god. First of all, a few advantages are as follows:

Self-delusion, and believing in a reality that surrounds you and your creator.

Boost of ego.(depending on some theistic religions, some destroy your ego)

A few disadvantages:

Grasp of reality.

Dependence on the god. (much like being dependent on crack)

Conflict of belief and reason/logic/reality.

I don't think a theist has more of a chance to survive, because an atheist, while not dependent on a god nowhere to be seen, can depend on himself and others. When there's no one around? You're around! Depend on yourself ya big crybaby (in general, not directed towards anyone).

I'm not sure what peace of mind is, but I'm pretty content with my lack of beliefs in any gods. No cognitive dissonnance, conflicts, or trouble.

[Caid Ivik]

You know, Acriku, you can cut the grass with hands, but it is easier with a scythe. God is for us like that scythe. Well, not needed for everything in simplified view, but helpful.

[Acriku]

How does one cut grass with a nonexistant scythe?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Acriku, it depends on the fanatiscm of the person.

For example, Muslim extremists, Christian extremists.

They are blinded by their religion and think god will make a shield for them, even if they blow themselves up for the 'religion'

I believe in God, but not in the Islam, or Christian way.

I know that gods exist.

And it's hard to believe in the bible, because it is WRITTEN by human hands and even modified.

So the religion seems to be more attractive to the readers.

I don't depend on anyone to survive, I am my own source of power and energy.

And if there is a god, that 'kicks' people that don't believe in him to hell? Then I have to say; " Some merciful god "

[Acriku]

Ah, but it is you who is doing the cutting, not the scythe you want to be there with you.

[nemafakei]

It seems to have been an evolutonary advantage for communites to live in a religion-based system, most likely for reasons to do with control of the populace, and the establishment of order by propaganda.

However, the truth of this now and in the future is waning, as our policing and judiciary systems become completely independant of religion.

Secondly, religious monopoly on power and other things besides has also been dissolved in many places. Religious position is therefore of little concern to an individual's physical/economic survival.

On a personal basis, the human psyche has not changed much, but the information and culture surrounding it has. We are now far less dependant on religious explanations for creation, and 'fear of the dark' can be allayed by science as well as religion - though note that many people often try to twist scientific findings to make themselves feel better - on a major scale, note the use of the term "Homo Sapiens" - incredibly arrogant, since we're breaking our own rules of taxonomy, by changing the name of the genus from pan to homo.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

My words are more sharp than a scythe, my friend.

And hence, if my words won't cut it.

I will cut down the grass with a Capitalist's head.

[Apollyon]

Well I'd say that most people adapt their God or deity to themselves rather than let themselves be moulded by the religion. I see reality as more of a kind of web, or venn diagram of many realities, each centered around every person and interconnected in physical space. In this way God may exist or may not, for he exists or not in your own reality but at the same time is very different to everyone else's God. Being more realistic, each person has many, many realities to his or herself. Indeed a very admirable goal is to unite all of these minds into one. There cannot be two skies (Not skis, Nema :P).

[Inoculator9]

Advantage of God beliefs:

The belief that your actions and outcomfes are pre-destined and acting to change them would be futile, and allows you to more easily cope with events.

Advantages of Atheistic or Agnostic beliefs:

You can be comforted with the belief that you have control of events in your life and that you can shape them yourself.

These are the main advantages as I see it. I am a staunch atheist but I have respect for all beliefs, because I don't believe that whether your beliefs are correct or not (mine or otherwise) should have much bearing on anything.

[Phage]

Advantages of being an atheist: Knowing what is true, not being constrained by Dogma.

Disadvnatages: Perhaps not being popular? Not having comforting delusions?(maybe)

It all depends on what kind of atheist and theist we are talking about. Marxists, existentialists, humanists, Buddhists, Taoists?

As for theists: Pagans, muslims, Christians, Hindus?

[Edric O]

Advantages of being an atheist: Knowing what is true [...]

Two can play at that game, you know...

1. Being religious

Advantages: Understanding the truth, having the strength to admit that there is something higher than yourself, and not being afraid of death.

Disadvantages: Being mocked and hated by atheists (who will soon be in the majority).

2. Being atheist

Advantages: Having a feeling of elitism, that you are among the selected few who are more "enlightened" than the idiotic religious masses, and believing that you can do anything in this life with no consequences.

Disadvantages: Being completely on your own, lacking comfort, and thinking that death is the end.

Btw, Inoculator, I must point out that you are wrong. Not all theists believe they are pre-destined. In fact, most Christians believe that God gave us free will, so we have complete control over our own lives.

[Acriku]

I don't see knowing death is the end as a disadvantage, maybe for a child, but mature people can learn to accept it.

Having a feeling of elitism, that you are among the selected few who are more "enlightened" than the idiotic religious masses, and believing that you can do anything in this life with no consequences.

What elitism? I don't expect better treatment. And most religions also feel they are more enlightened then the idiotic infidel masses, what kind of advantage is this? And any atheist that lives in a country with laws does not believe they can do anything in this life with no consequences. That's just an absurd misconception. It can actually be turned around - you have another eternal life to look forward to, who the hell cares what you do now? That's makes more sense than your atheist example. An atheist has much more to live for than a theist that believes in heaven and hell, because their whole life is on this earth and nothing beyond it, it's all that they have.

[Edric O]

Believing that death is the end could be a very big disadvantage if you have a dangerous job, for example.

You want to see atheist elitism? Look in a mirror.

And I don't know about other religions, but Christianity specifically says that we are all sinners, and none of us is any better than the next man. That's the very opposite of elitism.

As for doing anything with no consequences, you forget that most theists believe that good deeds in this life will be rewarded in the afterlife, and evil will be punished. You can often escape the judgement of the law, but you cannot escape the judgement of God.

[Acriku]

Believing that death is the end could be a very big disadvantage if you have a dangerous job, for example.

So theists aren't afraid of dying? I don't see a distinction between atheists and theists concerning death due to human nature, except that most theists believe there is something after death (that still doesn't stop human nature to kick in).

You want to see atheist elitism? Look in a mirror.

You still think that is elitism? Because they used bright? You just don't seem to understand the reasons for it. Bright has no negative connotations, it has positive connotations, which is why it was picked.

And I don't know about other religions, but Christianity specifically says that we are all sinners, and none of us is any better than the next man. That's the very opposite of elitism.

Christianity says a lot of things. What actually happens seems to often differentiate than what is supposed to happen.

As for doing anything with no consequences, you forget that most theists believe that good deeds in this life will be rewarded in the afterlife, and evil will be punished. You can often escape the judgement of the law, but you cannot escape the judgement of God.

Is that why atheists make up only 0.209% of the US prison population? As I said, what actually happens seems to often differentiate than what is supposed to happen.

[Dante]

I see every point as a double-edged sword in this argument.

For example; "Believing in God boosts confidence as it gives the believer something to be supported by, even in dire need."

Conversely, what if this kills them? More than one person has leapt to their death proclaiming that God will save them. And wouldn't it be better to rely on your fists if people are attacking you, rather than praying for divine assistance which (If modern angel-sighting levels are to be believed) will never come.

"Believing in God answers the deepest questions that can be asked."

Does it answer them correctly? 1+2=85,000. I have answered that question... incorrectly. There is no guarentee that these 'answers' are true as there is simply no proof. And even if it did answer them correctly, how can we be sure that there isn't more than one correct answer?

"Atheism brings clarity of thought."

Er... can't argue with that one really...

[Caid Ivik]

Dust Scout, dying for God is like dying for your fellow believers. That doesn't mean you have to wear shaheed belt, because that you wouldn't do with love for your enemy. When someone is going kill you, without your will to kill them, it may somehow change their mind. Testimony of believe. Even Jesus knew, the effect of martyrism, when he (with some irony) was saying:

"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." - Lk 23,34

You want to see atheist elitism? Look in a mirror.

You still think that is elitism? Because they used bright? You just don't seem to understand the reasons for it. Bright has no negative connotations, it has positive connotations, which is why it was picked.

I rather stay with defining defenders of atheism as "dread legion". Bright reminds me that queen sorceress from one fairy tale, which each day talked with her magic mirror who is the most beatiful woman on the Earth. "Snehulienka" in Slovak, I don't know what's the original name of that tale.

[Dante]

It's either your bad sentance structuring or my lack of understanding but I can't actually understand most of what you've written, Caid. Dying for 'fellow man' in general is just s silly as dying for a 'god.'

[Caid Ivik]

Well, if you're a hardcore egoist, than it is harder to sacrifice anything for else one.

[nemafakei]

Please avoid pettiness!

Do remember that half of the points people are making can be claimed of the other side, depending on your viewpoint. Consider all sides, and consider your phrasing.

[Inoculator9]

As often as that does happen Eddy, it is not the prevailing sense in Atheists. My observations were unbiased.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

So Atheists believe that people are bags of chemicals that follow their brains and instincts like a pack of zombies.

Damn, it must be a hell for those people.

Love is a simulated electronic pulse.

Joy is a simulated electronic pulse.

All of them pulses.

So if you're laying down on bed and look up at the ceiling, you think this?

"I am a sack of Chemicals and I must do what my 'instincts' tell me."

I am neither a Atheist or a Christian.

I do believe that God exists, but I don't worship him, because if you believe in him "your sins go away"

So every goddamn born human is a sinner for breathing air?

Doesn't make sense to me.....

I believe in myself and in my own power.

Religion considers Technology dangerous, but they are using Technology themselves.

And Technology helps mankind, no matter how big the risk is.

There is no gain, without risk.

[Edric O]

Acriku:

So theists aren't afraid of dying? I don't see a distinction between atheists and theists concerning death due to human nature, except that most theists believe there is something after death (that still doesn't stop human nature to kick in).

I don't know about other Christians (and theists in general), but I am not afraid of death. I have the same human self-preservation instict as everyone else, of course, but if I knew that my death would result in a great deal of good, I would not hesitate to give my life.

I would die for the victory of communism, for example.

You still think that is elitism? Because they used bright? You just don't seem to understand the reasons for it. Bright has no negative connotations, it has positive connotations, which is why it was picked.

And you don't seem to understand that it has negative connotations for everyone else. If a certain group of people are called "brights", the logical conclusion in that everyone else is NOT bright. In other words, NOT intelligent. Not "enlightened". Stupid.

Christianity says a lot of things. What actually happens seems to often differentiate than what is supposed to happen.

Is that why atheists make up only 0.209% of the US prison population? As I said, what actually happens seems to often differentiate than what is supposed to happen.

Is it not logical to conclude that whoever does NOT follow the tenets of Christianity is NOT a Christian? (or at least, not a good Christian?)

Of course it is. But you ignore it. You also ignore the fact that people get several advantages in US prisons if they declare themselves to be religious. AND you ignore the fact that atheists have killed more people throughout history than all members of all the major world religions combined.

What you are doing, Acriku, is called manipulation of data.

Dust Scout:

Dying for 'fellow man' in general is just s silly as dying for a 'god.'

Speak for yourself. Just because YOU are the living incarnation of selfishness and lack of compassion, that doesn't mean everybody has to be like you.

If you have nothing to die for, you have nothing to live for.