criver

Bots don't tire lol - they are not human... I mean I can make a program repeat forever (as long as the hardware works and the software doesn't fail ) - the pc won't have any objections to it lol: While(1){u+=1cout<<"Loop executed for the "<<u<<"th time."} P.S. btw it will have a problem when the number in u surpasses the size of memory allocated for it (though u can have this cycle without the u variable and it will repeat forever - or until u turn it off).

Yes it's working - thanks a lot!

I am sure a lot of people on the forum would like to have dune generations come out - but that doesn't mean anybody will try and mod spore - it's as simple as that. Since Cryo disappeared I don't think there's any company to take dune generations for development (I mean the company that tried to create it failed on the market - which says enough about the viability of such a product). People will continue making FPS and RPG - u may have noticed that there aren't quite as many RTS as there are FPS and RPG.

It might be me - but I never saw such an elaborate mod for Spore. So I am not even sure it's possible. And I don't know anybody on this forum who'll sit down and mod spore (and mod it like a pro at that - I mean basically changing all the basic game mechanics - it's almost like remaking the game). And here - Google is your friend (it took me ike 5 seconds to find these): http://www.sporebase.com/sb.html http://spore-modding.wikia.com/wiki/Spore_Modding_Wiki http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Modifications

Google is your friend - there's also info on the site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_based_on_Dune http://www.ign.com/games/dune-generations/pc-16418 http://www.gamespot.com/dune-generations/ http://dune2k.com/Duniverse/Games/Generations About if it was RPG or MMORPG - I guess it would have been a (the mmo part I'm not sure about - MMO)RTS: "This real-time strategy game will be set in a persistent game world inspired by Frank Herbert's classic sci-fi novel series."

Those "guests" are most probably bots and other such shit.

"Took us some time though. I come from the Netherlands. You? Perhaps the translations have something to do with it as well." I am from Bulgaria (Eastern Europe) - but I think the problem was more on the side of our understanding and thoughts on the various concepts these terms stand for (I got a CPE in English - so I don't think it's the translation - and u were making sense too). "It is true that I mainly had my board game in mind. If I didn't we finished a lot faster. Sorry for that. I mean, I could have taken a lot of variables in mind that are part of the RTS. At least we now know that a different amount of usable variables also changes game rules / game mechanics and thus game balance." - well it's also true vice versa - I was thinking mostly of a pc rts. "The Damage and Armour calculations, I really have them based on reality. Of course, the Damage is based on mass times speed in reality. While the Armour is based on density times thickness. If a bullet hits twice as hard, it actually does 4 times more damage. But if the armour is twice as thick, it reduces the damage by a factor 4. They have many tests on this. Of course in reality we have only 1 hit point. If our armour is like 10 times higher then the bullet strength, then we only take 1% damage. If the bullet strength is equal or 10 times higher then our armour, then it does enough or overkill. So 100 % in those 2 situations. In a game, each unit has more health points then just 1, just to make the game more fun." - I got it, and I think it's great that ur calculations are based on reality - but it's not really that bad to have something supernatural ingame. I mean there's a kind of charm to things u can't have in reality - like magic(by this I don't mean u should overwrite every rule or mechanic of the game). I don't know if u have played Jurassic War - it's a really old game - the unique thing about this game was that u could lvl every stat of every unit (u could even level magic power on a warrior - which was sensless - but you could) - your units were more like what's considered a "hero unit" nowadays. U can check it - might find some ideas(though I don't think it would work for a board game considering the numerous variables and the updates u have to make to them). About the PM - I was just curious why u asked.

Nice chat lolz "Yes, we disagree on the terms. That other guy seems to be using terms that even I never heard of. And he gives class :D." " About the disagreement of terms? How about we make a list of the terms, and explain what we mean by them? Not telling the other that he/she is wrong. Just 2 different languages. Keep it short for each term, ok? I mean, if ROF is something different in my view then someone else's? Why not make it a statement with what you mean with it. Who knows, we might get an agreement on a new term instead of the other 2 that are similar. " I didn't mean to say you're wrong - that's why I keep repeating that I didn't manage to make my point (but in fact I wasn't getting your point too - which I kinda knew - but wasn't sure what exactly u meant - hence the long discussion) - obviously because we're thinking the same thing but in different terms :P . For me rule and law is one thing - for u it's another - so when u use the term - in your way - I just assume u use it in my way - that's why I asked u to clarify - well I got it already - and I think u got it too. I think we're thinking pretty much the same thing :D . But still - u shouldn't use "The Artificial Natural Laws" - it's an oxymoron(well whatever - I mean u can use it - but people won't really understand it the first time they see it - u would need to do an explanation). " Facts: If you really study Physics, then you should know that Kinetic Energy is all about the forces. My armour and damage are "type" numbers, but applied in a kinetic impact simulation. Thus based on a law of physics. You can say no, but you don't no :) , how I worked this out. At least have a look at this: http://en.wikipedia..../Kinetic_energy And now look up the damage table's that I have posted in my board game thread :) See the similarity?" - yet again I failed to make my point :P - What I said in my prev post is that armor and heath are "game concepts" - u can't really relate them to reality(hence no real physcis) - u don't have 50 health or 30 armor - u're healthy with good armor irl. By that I don't mean that they don't have anything to do with reality - but they are an average - in these games u don't lose a limb - u lose health - and in most games losing health doesn't even slows u down or reduce your capabilities. I assure u I know what kinetic energy is about - I meant that your armor and health are "game concepts" - so u can't really do a real simulation (oxymoron much - lol even I use it :P ) - u can of course do some average calculation of an average force doing something on an average armor (and still it's far from reality's forces interaction, armors and how a biologic organism copes with injuries but whatever). My point was (of the whole previous post) that the game's "rules" are not natural(at least not for me - I explained why - u can't naturally test this - only artificially) - they are artificial. So yes - yet again it was about terms - I guess we basically had the same concept but we were "speaking in different languages" Just to be sure - I'll quote myself: "And btw damage and armor don't mean shit for kinetic energy - it's just a matter of forces - not of armor or health - armor and health are artificial concepts in gaming - u don't have 50 health in reality, nor 30 armor - it's a concept for simplifying the whole thing (it's not that u can do a simulation where ur unit loses an arm or a leg - but it's easier to average things). But whatever - even if u disagree - let's say we disagree on the usage of terms." - by "damage and armor don't mean shit for kinetic energy" - I meant that the ingame armor and health (as I had clarified rigth after that sentence) - the "game concepts" don't have anything to do with reality and physics - u don't calculate the impact from an explosion of a rocket on your infantry in reality(u do it artificially) - u just grab armor, health and rocket dmg (I simplified it of course) and claculate how much health ur units has after that. I mean u can take 5-6 rockets in Doom 3 without even blinking - so yeah it doesn't have anything much to do with real kinetic energy and real damage - I don't say it's impossible to make it depict reality - but there's no need to - that's one of the charms of a game - ur sardukar can take 3 rockets and still run happily around. ) - "let's say we disagree on the usage of terms." "Randomness:" & "Unit durability effects on damage:" - well yeah it was disagreement on terms... again :P - well at least know you know what I meant and I know what u did. " The unit alteration: The changes where fully tested on my board. And they have proven to be good and where predicted before hand. Of course it is different in RTS where things move constantly. Then the unit would be worse on many fronts. Most RTS don't even use the space and sizes, so that's defiantly going to twist the balance in case of stats reduction." - Yup, also I'm always thinking considering a pc rts while you're thinking in terms of a board game (so some of the disagreements come from here) - and that was one of my main points - a pc rts has to many factors to take into account for a person to be able to precisely balance it (hell - I wonder how there's any balance at all ). Speed of light: http://www.news.harv...2.18/light.html "Even the speed of light undergoes changes" - sorry it seems I misunderstood what u meant (thought u would start about some shit like tachyons or about how if u fly the speed of light - what would happen if u threw something) - I am always thinking of light speed as a constant cause I am always thinking about special relativity (don't ask - got two parents both physicist :P ) But your point (which I bet wasn't your point :P - and I just misunderstood the whole thing yet again) that laws change - I cannot agree with it (at most I can say that laws are relative ) - I mean it doesn't change the fact that light's speed is considred a constant (there's a reason it's called special relativity). Well I'd guess it was a term problem...again . "About the disagreement of terms? How about we make a list of the terms, and explain what we mean by them? Not telling the other that he/she is wrong. Just 2 different languages. Keep it short for each term, ok? I mean, if ROF is something different in my view then someone else's? Why not make it a statement with what you mean with it. Who knows, we might get an agreement on a new term instead of the other 2 that are similar." - I don't remember really telling u outright that u were right/wrong - I mean most of the times I considered the fact that I didn't make my point clear or that I misunderstood u (it was the same for u I think). But I think we understood what we both meant through this whole discussion - and I think we understood which terms we weren't thinking in the same way(and what the other person meant by them). So there's no real reason to write the whole thing again I think (+ it will be really hard explaining how u think of a term compared to how another one thinks of it - but I think we already both understood what we meant?). Thinking such a "little" thing was the problem in the discussion... :P However thanks to that I understood a lot of ur concepts about the whole thing - I mean I think pretty much the same things but u got things down in more details. Well nice discussion :P :D . P.S. I hope this long discussion contributed at least something to the topic. :D P.S.I replied to ur PM.

This will be a long one . " Why do I call them "law of physics" for that game? First of all, do you consider kinetic energy workings to be a law of physics? If so, then my damage and armour are part of it. There workings in the rules are derived from physics. And thus the working is physics. If not, lets agree that we disagree, and I call them rules instead to prevent confusion on your part. It's pointless to keep going about it while I await others to reply. I personally will consider them laws, since making exceptions is out of the question." - I guess I yet again failed to make my point lol :D . What I was talking about was balancing the game - and the mechanics of balancing it. I meant that neither of these mechanics can be called laws or rules (u can balance a game with some rules - but it's not the optimal thing to do) - because these mechanics are something artificial - meaning that you invent these mechanics - example: balance - health_bonus vs speed_bonus health_bonus=speed_bonus/2 Let's say this is your formula for balancing a unit with a bonus of speed and one with a bonus of health - and I mean - this formula is totally artificial - it can be chnaged to suit the game better or to suit another game etc. while a natural law doesn't change - it's something objective - u don't make it to suit some player or another - gravity is the same for everyhting (or at least that's what we think :P ). And btw damage and armor don't mean shit for kinetic energy - it's just a matter of forces - not of armor or health - armor and health are artificial concepts in gaming - u don't have 50 health in reality, nor 30 armor - it's a concept for simplifying the whole thing (it's not that u can do a simulation where ur unit loses an arm or a leg - but it's easier to average things). But whatever - even if u disagree - let's say we disagree on the usage of terms. " Twice the firing rate means killing twice as much. This is for my board game a fact. It's for a lot of games a fact. Unless you start messing with the ROF or cool down. But you are especially pointing towards the overkill. Then you are right." It would be great if the only problem was overkill (I should say that my opinion was based more on pc rts) - there are plenty of problems with saying that double fire rate = double kills - in a game like dune:emperor - ur units can miss, u can have a double fire rate and do double the damage let's say - which doesn't necessarily mean double the kills(on a micro level), doubling the fire rate doesn't necessarily mean that ur unit will be able to use it at its fullest (double the killing). Here's the best example - double fire rate != 2 units with half the fire rate shooting. U can say that 2 units can do double the killing compared to one - but it won't be true to say that double the fire rate will result in double the kills(2 units die harder than 1 - maning they can shoot a lot longer - meaning 2units shooting at firerate x do more killing that a single unit with firerate 2x - meaning double the firerate!=double the kills). Of course in your game double the fire rate can be double the kills (but then u must consider what is the difference between 2 units and a unit with double fire rate) - that's what I mean by the fact that your "rules" are artificial - they aren't universal (contrary to gravity). " This is how things go: Fire rate factor 2: Health target = 6 Damage = 1 Bullets is 1 or 2 Result is dead in 6 or 3 rounds, so a factor of 2. Health target = 6 Damage = 1 Bullets is 2 or 4 Result is dead in 3 or 2 rounds, so only a factor of 1,5. Which is overkill since we need round numbers. (In my game, the remaining bullets hit the next target until there are no more targets) Damage factor 2 in RTS: Health target = 6 Damage = 1 or 2 Bullets = 1 Result is dead in 6 or 3 rounds, so a factor of 2. Health target = 6 Damage = 1 or 2 Bullets = 2 Result is dead in 3 or 2 rounds, so only a factor of 1,5. Again overkill. Applying different ROF in RTS only: Health target = 6 Damage = 1, Cool Down = 1 Target is dead in 5 seconds (5,4,3,2,1,0) Damage = 2, Cool Down = 2 Target is dead in 4 seconds (4,4,2,2,0) Damage = 3, Cool Down = 3 Target is dead in 3 seconds (3,3,3,0) Damage = 4, Cool Down = 4 Target is dead in 4 seconds (2,2,2,2,0) (-2 if you think about it) Damage = 5, Cool Down = 5 Target is dead in 5 seconds (1,1,1,1,1,1) (-4 if you think about it) Damage = 6, Cool Down = 6 Target is dead in 0 seconds (0)" that may depict correctly a board game (idk don't know that much about boar games) - but it does not depict correctly a rts in real time - I think u know why. "I also could add now that, double health means double durability. Of course not in the RTS games on the computer, where damage of 10 defeats all units with health between 1 and 10. So doubling 5 to 10, is no difference in dying. I give you that." - well yeah the same thing I said upper in this post. " Rules and freedom. I balance, by using balancing rules that I have set up. Those formulas are what I am talking about. If I want to have 100 health to cost the same as 6 damage, then that's a balancing rule. Those balancing rules are even set up by rules for putting them together. But if you haven't worked with formulas yet for balancing, you can't know. The other rules you talk about are condition rules to play by. That's for the players, not the creator. So, we have "balancing rules" and we have "condition rules"." - well yeah I just don't agree with your terms - I mean waht u see as "balancing rules" I see as balancing formulas,mechanics, equations etc - not rules. And 100*k health = 6 damage - for me that is an equation not a rule - u have some k const from which u can derive either health - given the dmg or vice versa. And "rules putting them together" - I mean if there were rules to put them together it would be a lot easier to balance a game - for me those "balancing rules" are derived from simulations, statistics, experinece etc - basically data - not rules - u analyze the data and make the "balancing rules". I can assure u that every person that know mutiplication and division can work with "formulas for balancing" - the problem is creating these formulas so they actually balance the game. Well the "other rules" are what comes to mind when u say a rule - a rule is a guidline - not a formula u devise to balance a game(IMHO)... " The freedom that I have with my formulas / balancing rules / "nature laws ingame :D" Has proven to be enormous in many ways. This one time I altered only damage of an unit. The killing speed altered, 1 side went 10% faster, the other side went 10% slower. Against structures, it was the same. Against the target it was mentioned for, it was reduced with 10%, but since it's also cheaper according to the formulas, it could get more cover on the map. And in a way became better in certain situations. If you want, I can give you the battle where a slightly "worse" unit, actually acts better." - it may seem the same agaisnt structures and targets in theory - but it may not be in practice - there are too many factors having an influence on that in a rts. " Every law in nature, is still a theory. As long as the simulations prove that the theory is correct. It's the law. Once there are flaws in the simulations, the theory of that law has to be rewritten. The same still goes for my formulas :) In the last 3 years, only size and range/speed had given me problems. Both where solvable by testing multiple theories. ^^ The laws of Newton had to be rewritten! Even the speed of light undergoes changes." The fact that a law has to be rewritten means only that it was not a law - it's something we thought of as a law - a natural law is not something that changes whimsically. The laws of Newton aren't incorrect - here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion - especially the part: " Newton's laws were verified by experiment and observation for over 200 years, and they are excellent approximations at the scales and speeds of everyday life. Newton's laws of motion, together with his law of universal gravitation and the mathematical techniques of calculus, provided for the first time a unified quantitative explanation for a wide range of physical phenomena. These three laws hold to a good approximation for macroscopic objects under everyday conditions. However, Newton's laws (combined with universal gravitation and classical electrodynamics) are inappropriate for use in certain circumstances, most notably at very small scales, very high speeds (in special relativity, the Lorentz factor must be included in the expression for momentum along with rest mass and velocity) or very strong gravitational fields. Therefore, the laws cannot be used to explain phenomena such as conduction of electricity in a semiconductor, optical properties of substances, errors in non-relativistically corrected GPS systems and superconductivity. Explanation of these phenomena requires more sophisticated physical theories, including general relativity and quantum field theory. " - they are correct - for the scale they were written. " Even the speed of light undergoes changes" - dafuq? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light The speed of light in vacuum, commonly denoted c, is a universal !!!!physical constant!!!! important in many areas of physics.

I'd say that Spore is really complex - it's a really elaborate game - not something u can sit down and code in half a year even...

Yep it's artificail intelligence machine - it's a RPG with gliders - machines. Here more info on it: http://www.ign.com/games/aim-artificial-intelligence-machine/pc-567394 http://skyriver.ru/project.phtml?p=mech2&l=en http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/915039-aim-artificial-intelligence-machine/images http://skyriver.ru/project.phtml?p=mech1&l=en http://skyriver.ru/mechanoids/index.phtml?lng=eng http://www.neoseeker.com/Games/Products/PC/aim/ http://aim2thefirstforum.warsboard.com/

Hi! Well A.I.M. 1 and 2 are one of my favourite games - and I was wondering if anyone of you has played them or heard of them? The games aren't really that popular (not really sure why) - so I'd like to hear your opinions on them.

The buildings look 3d - but they may be just sprites - and I'm almost sure the infantry are sprites. But yeah - it's not as simpe as a skin - so I'd guess u can't reall have it on pc - unless u take the ps emulator - which is free and doesn't require much resources. But yeah - I'd say it's not even a port of the PC game - so I'd guess it was written pretty much from scratch.

"Law of physics are the rules in our world. The formulas that I invent, are the law of physics in that game. If you double the fire rate of a unit, then that unit kills twice as much, that's a fact in that game determined by a law. The rules you set in a game have to be so solid, that they will act as like "a law of physics" and that you are bound to them when you add new stuff. But if you want to call them game rules, then we call them game rules ^^." - 1) the formulas u invent are not the law of physics in the game - I mean they are artificial (a pc game rts can have a physics engine and formulas for claculating health etc of units - the "balance formulas" are artificial - the physics engine is not - it is derived from reality). 2) If you double the firerate of a unit that doesn't necessarily mean it kills twice as much - it's the same with damage - doubling the damage doesn't mean it kills twice as much. And so that's not "a fact in that game determined by a law" - moreover - it's not a law - it's merely something somebody assumed (it's not objective like mathematics) - the person inventing this rule is assuming - meaning he's not sure - so it's most likely an assumption - not a law. 3) The more "solid" the "game rules" the less freedom - rules and balance aren't equivalent - rule!=balance. Let me set this straight - a rule in a game is something like this: flamethrower forbidden in competitive play, reach perk forbidden in competitive play, rules for victory: destroy the enemy base without killing civilians etc. Those are game rules, and calculating how to balance different factions by varying variables such as heath, dps, speed etc. are not rules. "objectively applicable" - meaning it works - that u can apply it in practice - contrary to just being a theory. " How I got these formulas? Mainly by research. ^^, step by step, starting with 2 variables only. Also watching a lot of RTS games. The most important one for me was C&Cdawn. The formulas that I posted are the real thing, they already had over 200 main tests on them in the past 3 years. Every variable has been tested in different scales with all others set to default. Every variable has also been tested in combination with other variables. Also different battle situations have been tested in this. Not to mention; 1 third is from a natural law regarding material strength. 1 third is from a previous game where health was also adjustable, but damage types where fixed. And 1 third is "new", since it had to be a board game with simplified numbers." Of course this is the way to proceed - that's what I meant - u can't just use math to balance - u should do simulations - but I think u understand that these simulations are subjective - u can't really say they work 100% - u don't have a formula that says this is right and this is wrong(hence this is not really a problem of math) - meaning u can't be sure 100%. " The test of 1 main test expanded to the maximum: I also searched for another way to calculate battle situations, since random figures and point in time situations, both, also will influence a game. I cam up with my first squad score with the battle mechanics that my game applies. I got an excel that only tests the number of units that are infantry and have anti infantry weapons. Without event cards, it's just filling in. With the event cards, the very next situation can be filled in. And then a new score is calculated from that point onwards. It was very full filling to see 99,9% of the scores to be correct. So my tests went from 200 to an astonishing over 3000 already :). But I understand if the formula is vague for others. So would be that list of 3000 tests. I have yet to create one with 2 armour types and 2 damage types, but that too would be easy to implement. So trial and error at first at a small scale, and 1 test has been expanded. I plan on doing more of those pre-tests expanding :P ).

"Did I get your point? :)" No, I don't think so. "I know, there are now unwritten rules for balancing. Yet they make sense. Putting just as much on the left as on the right of the balance." - there are no rules written or unwritten for balancing - the person that makes the game invents them. They can make sense to you, but that doesn't mean they are objectively applicable. Putting just as much what - and how do u decide how much is enough? - u see it's more complex that it looks like. I'll go with an example: Each faction should have some pluses and minuses when compared to another - the problem is balancing these "fluctuations" in the stats of different factions. Let's say we have faction1(I'll use only 1 advantage in stats for simplicity): plus-> speed:default+x damage:default and faction2: plus->damage:default+y speed:default Formula for balance: damage_bonus=speed_bonus/2 y=x/2 Just some random formula actually - so how do u invent your formulas? I mean I just pulled this thing out of the air - so how do u write a "formual that really balances"?

" Your point: Using a mathematical formula to determine the prices of the units. Or some other variables as well. It's like a law of physics to that game. I have 1 of those for each game that I tried to create. The best one is still for my board game, since it contains few variables and a battle mechanic that supports durability of the whole army in a whole in half of the situations." My point was not that - the equations in your game are not laws of physics - it is something you invent - hence the subjective factor - you write these equations - u don't find them in nature - meaning - your game will be as unbalanced as your equations. Math is just a tool - u can solve problems with it - but what u want is to balance the game - hence u'll be inventing these "problems" - if u can devise them well ur game will be balanced - if not - well the math part will still be right - but your game would be unbalanced.

I understand that I didn't really make my my point clear - the problem is that you set the rules for all the calculations (ex: cost=speed+health+dps etc.) - meaning that even if your calculations are alright - ur game can still be unbalanced - the problem being the balance depends on your formulas - I mean you devise all the equations (they are not something that is totally objective ) - so in fact it actually depends on you to balance the game not on the math. Math is just a tool - of course a tool can be useful - but it depends on how u use it. The same goes for different strategies - the game gives some possibilities to the player - it's up to him how he uses them. I mean not all games are written with a certain strategy in mind (ex: wave rushing the 1st 5minutes of the game) - look at games like LOL and Tribes:Ascend - strategies are something that the players create - we can say that the game gives them some freedom. Many of today's RTS actually lack this freedom - most of them are written with some common strategies(for winning) in mind - which makes them kind of boring. I don't have anything against playing similar games, but when every 2nd rts is a Warcraft remake it gets kind of boring... :P One of dune's unique aspects for example is harvesting spice - your harvesters need to go into the open (and not hide in some mine behind all ur defenses).

You can balance most RTS - depends on the RTS though. First if u got a rts with only 1 playable faction there's no need for balancing whatsoever. However it gets tricky the more factions u add - because they should differ in something (so u need more variables on which they should differ). Then it starts depending on what variables influence the game. It's really hard to balance a RTS with a lot of "exotic" attributes to the units. For 1 thing it's really hard to balance things that don't have much in common - if u had to balance a game with 2 factions - 1st one has more attack dmg, 2nd has more attack speed - it won't be that hard to balance this. But if u had to balance a faction with units with high dps and a faction with units that are usually faster (meaning just speed bonus) - u wouldn't really be able to balance the whole thing with only math - u can't really calculate it without setting some rules (example: 2*x speed= y dmg) - the problem is u need to set the rules by which u "balance the game". So I'd say it's really hard and u can't do it only with math (even if the 2 factions differ only by attack dmg and attack speed - even if u made them to actually have equal dps there will be differences - so u can't do it with only math). Also even if u think something is balanced it may actually prove not to be - let's say 1k+ people play ur game - usually there would be a site with strategies - so most people would use these strategies and ur game will be "balanced" - if people played with these strategies - but it can happen so that somebody devises a new original strategy that actually makes the game unbalanced (let's say the strategy fully exploits the possibilities of the faction - and this faction would prove to be op - even if it was not before). All in all - balancing in games is a really complex thing - especially rts. It's kinda like chess - there are infinite possibilities - u can't really fully balance a RTS.

Nope u weren't the only one - and he said he'll have exams like 5 times - so yeah I knew he'd stop the projects for some time.

I said I wouldn't help u with coding but whatever (I don't know game maker - but I'll figure the code I guess) - can u post the code u're having a problem with and what exactly - I'm gonna take a look and try to help u. Just tell me what exactly (what part/mechanic of the game) are u trying to code now and post the code where u're now.

I kinda didn't understand everyhting you said ??? ... well whatever: "I just created 2 pages of why it is hard for me to understand programming language. But I deleted those pages to keep you happy instead of impending doom depression ??? " Anyway, to make things short. There are even people who don't understand the difference between a circle and another round object. ^^ Don't , don't ever, never, tell them it's easy to understand. Each person has it's own speciality. (yes, I know of someone who doesn't know)" - it doesn't matter what somebody doesn't understand as long as he is willing to understand it - it just requires some effort and motivation - for one thing programming languages are like learning a new (speaking) language - though a programming language should be easier - considering it's fully based on logic (there are no logical exceptions like in speaking languags - I mean in my native language you can have double positve equal negative: +*+!=- ; but well that's how it is - and there are no 60k+ words in programming languages). So I mean it's not as hard as people tend to view it - but whatever - I mean if u don't even try u won't know. " We are all friends on this forum. :), despite our heritage or nation. I hope we agree on that." - that was pretty random - but I think u just misunderstood my prev post( otherwise I can't get ur point in writing this - I'me even getting the feeling that u misenderstoo that I tried to offend somebody - and I'd say no it isn't the case ??? ) - I was trying to tell the guy not to get depressed over his people (cause he said: "its this country... it tells people to be mechanic and do just one stuff... tht's why i'm choosing this path... it'll be hard because i've to face a whole country of melodramatic people against me..." ) - and I got a little phylosophical and wrote that it doesn't really matter what "our heritage or nation" are - cause a person is unique and can't be generalized on base of nation/country etc - so not all the people can be melodramatic - different people have distinct ideas - people are not a mass but consist of different individuals(who have different ideas etc - so they can't be all meloramatic). But yeah we're all friends ??? ). And here just for u I'm gonna analyze my code to show u that it isn't really that hard(the languag is Blitz3D - some kind of Basic language - with some additional features and an integrated 3d engine - has really good command reference in it - so the usage of every function can be checked there): Graphics3D 1024,768,0,1 Basically this is a function that should look something like this Graphics3D(window_width,window_height,color_depth,mode) - the function opens a direct3d window with the specified parameters in windows: window_width being the width in pixels of the window, window_hieght - the height in pixels of the window http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution, color_depth - how many bits of color usually 16/24/32 or 0 to use current Windows color_depth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth, and mode tells how to open the window - full-screen/winowed. SetBuffer BackBuffer() - basically it's setting up in which buffer the vga writes - we choose the backbuffer - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff604993.aspx , http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/game-programming/backbuffer-r1128, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framebuffer SeedRnd 8 - ever played minecraft - it's basically the rnd seed when u have a map - it's a seed for my rand() functions - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed Local player Local speed#=.3 Local Light_rot=1 Defining some variables(the first is an int, 2nd float, 3rd int) - all of them are local and not global - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_variable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_variable Type tank Field obj End Type A simplified version of the struct or class in C++: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struct_(C_programming_language) , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B_classes cam=CreateCamera() MoveEntity cam,0,30,0 player=cam Well that's really simple - CreateCamera() - creates a camera in 3d space and returns a handle to the indentifier cam; MoveEntity cam,0,30,0 - moves this camera up with 30 (x=0,y=30,z=0); player=cam - assigns the handle of cam to player. I'm gonna stop here for now - but I think it's enough to understand that it's not that hard - I mean u don't really need to know what is a BackBuffer actually or how the seedrnd works or other trivial things to get the program running - u just need basic notions such as variables, functions, statements, identifiers, global/local scope etc. - and I don' think there's anything more self-explanatory than a function like CreateCamera or LoadMesh or CreateLight or RenderWorld etc.

The pic is not good (I'm feeling flattered actually - but it isn't good :P - and the code is messy ) - I mean I did this thing under 15 minutes - u can see by the length of code - there's not even 100lines of code lolz . Though I should mention that blitz3d is kinda noob friendly - I mean usually u'd have 10x lines of code for something like this (unless u make ur own functions and use them - though still u're gonna have like 5 #include at least) on a language like C++. And btw usually in rts music!=singing... so u can try to figure something out - but I'd advise u left the music for the end (I mean leave the resources for the end as I've already said - try to focus on the mechanics). "well about the game its not me tht will make me loose hope on it... its this country... it tells people to be mechanic and do just one stuff... tht's why i'm choosing this path... it'll be hard because i've to face a whole country of melodramatic people against me... well still I go on with the hope this game will become a reality... " - well I don't really know where u live (where do u live? ) but I mean u're generalizing - there are plenty of assholes and small-minded people everywhere - but they're not divided into nations - I mean people are unique - they're not really that defined by their nation , but enough with the philosophy babble - it depends on u (and maybe the people helping u) - what u can and can't do. You shouldn't really "go with the hope" - hope isn't really the best thing - just decide to do it or not - I mean if you know u tried your best u won't regret it - but make sure to have fun too. Also , even if the project doesn't come to fruition - I don't think that's really such an important thing - u don't "lose" if u don't manage to make it - u'll have actually learnt a lot of things from that (I mean I've dropped 100+ projects - it's a little different when this is your first project - but later u'll see that it doesn't really matter - as long as u gain something from this experience). Well good luck - and most importantly have fun and don't lose confidence and motivation.

Well it's good that u have some sprites - I guess u just wanted to make new? - u can try to edit the old ones btw - some color changes - photoshop editing etc (though I think it'll be kinda hard if they are really low res). "tht is pretty good" - didn't get what u meant... "will try wings3d for now" - idk there are plenty of 3d modelers - u can try to find more (I mean I just suggested these because there simple and free - there're professional tools too - like Maya, 3dsmax, lightwave etc.): https://www.lightwave3d.com/ http://usa.autodesk.com/3ds-max/ http://usa.autodesk.com/maya/ http://poser.smithmicro.com/ http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/ http://www.maxon.net/ It's up to u - just find the one that suits u best - I mean u should probably start with something simple - in my case I started with anim8or and the eggplant tutorial, the last thing I actually made was a really high-poly dragon. Though I'd say that wings3d is maybe the best thing to start with - it has this professional touch while keeping things relatively simple. Well if u want a really pro thingy though - I'd say Maya and Z-Brush)they're kinda hard though. Btw to make them as sprites - there's usually a function generate image in the 3d modelers - u can choose resolution etc. - I've actually done some silly movies with anim8or - though 3d modelling isn't really my specialty - but I still hope that helped u at least a little. " as I said it'll take few months before I actually start building the game... for now i'm setting the base for the game... basic ui,codes,designs for stuff etc." - u really shouldn't press things(people usually lose motivation when they are under stress - believe me I got some experience with that) - I just meant that u'd rather work on the mechanics than the graphics - forget them for the end (or don't if u're having fun :D it's always good to keep it fun). Here's a suggestion: a good way to start would be to make the terrain first - I mean first u can have it flat - go and try making a grid for the terrain (so u can implement even a basic A* algorithm). Also u should really decide if it will be 2D, 3D or 2D/3D. I mean 3d is not actually harder than 2d contrary to common beliefs (especially in a rts - in fact it even makes some things simpler). Well that's all - just remember keep it fun (for urself).

@Quiet Snow: Nice asm - never got to this level - I mean I use pretty high-level languages - basic/C++. But I don't think you should consider the projetc a "miracle" - I mean it's nothing really that much - so I'd say it's feasible if the guy has the motivation required to learn and try making it. @X3M: Btw it's not really as hard as u think - I mean making a program with tanks running around - here's a code I wrote in Blitz3D(though I haven't touched that thing in almost 2 years) in 15m: Graphics3D 1024,768,0,1SetBuffer BackBuffer()SeedRnd 8Local playerLocal speed#=.3Local light_rot=1Type tankField objEnd Typecam=CreateCamera()MoveEntity cam,0,30,0player=campiv=CreatePivot()light1=CreateLight(1,piv)MoveEntity light1,50,0,0AmbientLight 50,50,50 light2=CreateLight()LightColor light2,255,0,0terrain=LoadTerrain( "media/height_map.bmp" )MoveEntity terrain,-128,0,-128TerrainDetail terrain,16000,TrueScaleEntity terrain,1,50,1grass_tex=LoadTexture( "media/mossyground.bmp" )EntityTexture terrain,grass_tex,0,1TerrainShading terrain,1EntityType terrain,2; Load meshgtank=LoadMesh("media/warrior.3ds")ScaleEntity gtank,.3,.3,.3For k=1 To 10t.tank=New tankt\obj=CopyEntity(gtank)PositionEntity t\obj,Rand(-128,128),60,Rand(-128,128)TurnEntity t\obj,0,Rand(180),0EntityType t\obj,1Next FreeEntity gtankCollisions 1,2,2,2While Not KeyDown(1)If KeyHit(57) Then light_rot=1-light_rotIf light_rot=1 Then TurnEntity piv,1,0,0EndIf TurnEntity player,MouseYSpeed(),-MouseXSpeed(),0If KeyDown( 17 )=True Then MoveEntity player,0,0,speedIf KeyDown( 31 )=True Then MoveEntity player,0,0,-speedIf KeyDown( 30 )=True Then MoveEntity player,-speed,0,0If KeyDown( 32 )=True Then MoveEntity player,speed,0,0update_tanks()MoveMouse 512,379 UpdateWorld()RenderWorldFlipWendEnd Function update_tanks()For t.tank=Each tankMoveEntity t\obj,0,-.2,0Next End Function Here's an image derived from this shit: @AQIB: Why don't u try to find the sprites from the game (search in resource folder or something)? Also I'd advise u making the figures 3d first if u can't draw - here: http://www.anim8or.com/main/index.html http://www.blender.org/ http://www.wings3d.com/ Btw - I still think u should start with the mechanics of the game - I mean use some blank images for a beginning for the units.

Thanks a lot to whoever fixed the site! It is working now. Also, let's get back on topic - how's ur PC - found a way to fix it?