The Dread Legion

[Caid Ivik]

Welcome, all champions of secularity!

This thread is made especially for Acriku and his followers in his anti-djihad against all religions and metaphysical thinking on this world. So, what do you offer as replacement for religion? What should give human the sense of life? What should maintain the laws of morale, or show a model of life? And as the primary questions which weren't needed before people like your granpa Friedrich: what the hell we are and why we are?

[Edric O]

There was no point in asking, since we already know what he will say. Acriku's answer to all those questions is the same:

Nothing.

[Davidu]

Hmm... you can find a lot of things to make you go on.

Think of a thing and you'll be able to see that that thing can be so important to dedicate you life to.

[nemafakei]

"What should give human the sense of life? What should maintain the laws of morale, or show a model of life?"

Laws and guidelines. Education with moral content.

"what the hell we are and why we are? "

We are bags of overexcited chemicals. Why is there this assumption that where is a reason for our existance? Humanity likes to elevate it so by thinking it is more than just a pointless group of organisms.

[Cyborg]

What should give human the sense of life? What should maintain the laws of morale, or show a model of life?

I am not believing in any God at all. Yet I love my life. There are more than enough laws and guidelines to help you through your life, so I doubt that would be any problem.

[Davidu]

We think we have a higher purpose, that we are superior and logical.

But we do so many idiotic, illogical, absurd things...

[Caid Ivik]

Maybe that is a show of our free mind. Animal wouldn't do anything "irational". Just for what it is programmed. I would show especially Fakei's post as the show of atheistic nihilism, which came only to negate values and bring down culture:

"We are bags of overexcited chemicals. Why is there this assumption that where is a reason for our existance? Humanity likes to elevate it so by thinking it is more than just a pointless group of organisms."

How can someone live with functional and using mind and yet with such opinions at himself?

[Cyborg]

You must just accept that you're existing for no apparent reason but to balance the ecosystem...

Species come and species die. It's because humans can think so complicated they still exist.

[Acriku]

Religion has brought us where we are, but it is of no use anymore.We can sremain moral, and remain in our ways without religion. Back in history, we could not. We were fools back then, and now we have the ability to stay moral and do away with traditional superstitions.

[emprworm]

We are bags of overexcited chemicals. .

atheism in its pure form.

[emprworm]

Religion has brought us where we are, but it is of no use anymore.We can sremain moral, and remain in our ways without religion. Back in history, we could not. We were fools back then, and now we have the ability to stay moral and do away with traditional superstitions.

back in history, we believed that human beings were valuable, but now- some of us believe that humans are nothing more than " bags of overexcited chemicals." We had purpose back then, and now a growing minority has the ability to make themselves meaningless and purposeless as they embrace futility.

[Acriku]

When we believed humans had value, were special, were an exception to nature, we were fooling ourselves. Back then, we thought we did not go through adaptive radiation, that we were something higher. But, with evidence and application we found we are nothing but what we thought we were higher than. We are just like the ant, the spider, the worm. Our bodies are different, chemicals are different, but we are nature. There is nothing to suggest we are something higher, something that is special. We are nothing. Anybody who thinks we are special in some way are fooling themselves, and is childish.

[DukeLeto]

back in history, we believed that human beings were valuable, but now- some of us believe that humans are nothing more than " bags of overexcited chemicals." We had purpose back then, and now a growing minority has the ability to make themselves meaningless and purposeless as they embrace futility.

Why should mankind view itself as more important than any other form of life on Earth? For example, why is it worthy of life imprisonment to hit one person with a car and drive away, but perfectly fine to run over ten turtles and drive on? There are way more humans than there are turtles...

I think ALL life is "sacred", not just people. In fact, people least of all; mankind is one of the few species that performs no nescesasary purpose on Earth. Indeed, we are destroying Earth.

You may not value my opinion; fine I understand that. But I really don't value yours, either. ;)

[emprworm]

When we believed humans had value, were special, were an exception to nature, we were fooling ourselves. Back then, we thought we did not go through adaptive radiation, that we were something higher. But, with evidence and application we found we are nothing but what we thought we were higher than. We are just like the ant, the spider, the worm. Our bodies are different, chemicals are different, but we are nature. There is nothing to suggest we are something higher, something that is special. We are nothing. Anybody who thinks we are special in some way are fooling themselves, and is childish.

When we believed humans were nothing more than bags of overexcited chemicals, our morality declined, value for human life decreased, purpose vanished, meaning in life became an illusion, hope eliminated, self-serving greed flourished, compassion dwindled, intolerance skyrocketed, superiority complexes spread, hate increased, despair increased. Anyone who thinks we are of no more value than a lump of bricks or a bag of mostly water is a sad epitome of human existence, without hope, without purpose, and is ultimately no different dead than he is alive. Great pity, I have for someone like this.

[emprworm]

back in history, we believed that human beings were valuable, but now- some of us believe that humans are nothing more than " bags of overexcited chemicals." We had purpose back then, and now a growing minority has the ability to make themselves meaningless and purposeless as they embrace futility.

Why should mankind view itself as more important than any other form of life on Earth? For example, why is it worthy of life imprisonment to hit one person with a car and drive away, but perfectly fine to run over ten turtles and drive on? There are way more humans than there are turtles...

I think ALL life is "sacred", not just people. In fact, people least of all; mankind is one of the few species that performs no nescesasary purpose on Earth. Indeed, we are destroying Earth.

You may not value my opinion; fine I understand that. But I really don't value yours, either. ;)

why are you still alive then? Have you considered removing yourself from the planet? Why would you kill millions of innocent bacteria in order to save yourself from disease? You are warped.

[DukeLeto]

I have hope, purpose, and meaning in my life. Just because I don't believe in a god doesn't mean I see no value in life. I just think sometimes too much value is put on human life; to the point where every other speices on Earth is secondary. I believe that is one of those animal instincts we should have evolved past.

[Acriku]

I believe what I posted Empr, am I now an immoral beast?

[Caid Ivik]

Of course not, Acriku. If you believe your sense of life is self-made and is moraly good, then you are a beast, because you name yourself as animal, but at least moral beast. God leads us even if we don't want to - altough you may place that God into your self. As I read what you and DukeLeto have written here, I see you aren't empty atheists. You are pantheists, who believe the main purpose of everything is to serve the World-God, which isn't actually a person like christian God, but it is a source of life, terran life, your main value, which you worship in your specifical religion named secular humanism. Am I true?

[emprworm]

I believe what I posted Empr, am I now an immoral beast?

i believe what I posted, Acriku, am I now a childish fool?

[Acriku]

Actually, I have similar beliefs with pantheism, but not enough to be called one.

Empr - you are fooling yourself, but the belief itself is childish - not you.

[Caid Ivik]

It isn't you, who call yourself a part of religion. You are closer than you think.

[emprworm]

Actually, I have similar beliefs with pantheism, but not enough to be called one.

huh? pantheism is a supernaturalist world view.

[Acriku]

Caid, let me refer you to the pantheism website that describes all about pantheism... http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/

When you look at the night sky or at the images of the Hubble Space Telescope, are you filled with feelings of awe and wonder at the overwhelming beauty and power of the universe?

Yes I am.

When you are in the midst of nature, in a forest, by the sea, on a mountain peak - do you ever feel a sense of the sacred, like the feeling of being in a vast cathedral?

No I don't, but I appreciate its beauty nonetheless.

Do you believe that humans should be a part of Nature, rather than set above it?

Yes I do.

Are you sceptical about a God other than Nature and the Universe?

Yet do you feel an emotional need for a recognition of something greater than your own self or than the human race?

Yes, and no (respectively).

So you see, there are differences between me and a pantheist. I am just your ordinary nature-lover-appreciator.

huh? pantheism is a supernaturalist world view.

No it isn't, for example modern pantheism, from http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/ -

Scientific or natural pantheism is a modern form of pantheism that deeply reveres the universe and nature and joyfully accepts and embraces life, the body and earth, but does not believe in any supernatural deities, entities or powers.

Of course not, Acriku. If you believe your sense of life is self-made and is moraly good, then you are a beast, because you name yourself as animal, but at least moral beast. God leads us even if we don't want to - altough you may place that God into your self. As I read what you and DukeLeto have written here, I see you aren't empty atheists. You are pantheists, who believe the main purpose of everything is to serve the World-God, which isn't actually a person like christian God, but it is a source of life, terran life, your main value, which you worship in your specifical religion named secular humanism. Am I true?

I'm fine with beast, nothing wrong with a beast, or more commonly, an animal.

[emprworm]

Acriku, I don't care what kind of a Hillary spin some guy puts on Pantheism it means simply "All is God". It is a supernaturalist world view which has been around for centuries. Now, if you want to spin it up CLinton style and add your own definition to it, by all means go ahead.

[Caid Ivik]

That is your main flaw: you think about everything only with reading web pages. There are also other sources of info, some with less radiation than from computer, which twists your mind ;D