Did humans come first?

[Aeris]

There was no proof ever found we aren't the first intelligent lifeforms inhabiting this planet, but if you want so, then look into first verses of Bible:

"And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Gen 1,2

I cannot believe the bible, for it was written by humans and humans are flawed. I do believe in some of the teachings of the bible, but I refuse to believe that everything in the bible is, for sure, completely, and literally true.

[Edric O]

It isn't ignorant to say that, I can just look at the present time. Is there peace? No.

Yes, look at the present time. Is everyone religious? No.

As long as there are fundies and orthodox people, there will never be peace.

Prove it.

Only liberal religious people can live peacefully, because they don't put opponents of faith as the enemy. They aren't that serious about it.

As a matter of fact, it is precisely the people who are the most serious about Christianity that are the world's greatest pacifists. Jesus Christ told us (over and over again) to LOVE our fellow man. To LOVE even our enemies.

Those who take Christianity seriously will never willingly hurt another human being, much less start a war.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I think that we were the first inteligent creature to be created, but there will be others. I think I read somewhere that our galaxy is one of the oldest. and maybe we are the only inteligent creatures in our galaxy. then it could be true

[Acriku]

Edric, edric, edric. You don't get it, you just don't get it. (Da-da-da)

Yes, look at the present time. Is everyone religious? No.

If everyone was religious, and fundamentalist, we'd be worse off than before! There would be fights in the educational system for things to teach, fights in the legislative department for laws to make and pass, fights in every other thing you can think of, and small fights turn into big fights, until we have distinct sides and tension will rise, and rise, and finally war breaks out and we have people armed with crosses and dead jesus corpses, against other people with ninja david stars, against other people carrying a fat man on their shoulders, against other people with a woman giving birth, etc. An entire world of religion is very scary (although I made it comical).

Prove it.

Proof is for mathematics. Evidence, however, is what I need. And all I need is history, and the present times. The Islamic terrorists are fundies, yes? It's all a matter of what people interpret their religion to be for them.

As a matter of fact, it is precisely the people who are the most serious about Christianity that are the world's greatest pacifists. Jesus Christ told us (over and over again) to LOVE our fellow man. To LOVE even our enemies.

Those who take Christianity seriously will never willingly hurt another human being, much less start a

The number of pacifists versus the number of violent religious people is one-sided, the latter. The stronger the christian, the more intense are their views, and the more likely they would be violent in certain situations. And the more likely they would dislike other views. People can practice what Jesus taught without being so damn serious about the bible stories, the bible, or god. But those who don't, can be pretty violent.

[Dude_Doc]

We do need an alien treath, or at least something that makes us "come together" as a race, not as nations. This is another "fact" of the good-evil scale. The evil would be the treath, and the good would be the unification of mankind...

[Acriku]

The problem is keeping the peace. An almost-perfect example is in Ender's Game, where the alien threat is eliminated, and the Russian soldiers try to take over the command school and earth. They fail, and it's peaceful again for a while, but you get my point.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

We do need an alien treath, or at least something that makes us "come together" as a race, not as nations. This is another "fact" of the good-evil scale. The evil would be the treath, and the good would be the unification of mankind...

maybe we would come together during a war with aliens, but afterwards the conflicts would start again. just like in China, when the communists and nationalist fought together against Japan

[Caid Ivik]

Don't think the war with an outer threat would ally us all. Everybody would try to contact them and set their alliance with them.

[Edric O]

No, Acriku, it is you who are in error. :)

If everyone was religious, and fundamentalist, we'd be worse off than before! There would be fights in the educational system for things to teach, fights in the legislative department for laws to make and pass, fights in every other thing you can think of, and small fights turn into big fights, until we have distinct sides and tension will rise, and rise, and finally war breaks out and we have people armed with crosses and dead jesus corpses, against other people with ninja david stars, against other people carrying a fat man on their shoulders, against other people with a woman giving birth, etc. An entire world of religion is very scary (although I made it comical).

Maybe. Or maybe not. My point is that you have no way of knowing, so you are only making empty accusations.

Fundamentalism in itself isn't good or bad. It can lead to great violence, but it can also lead to noble deeds of charity and compassion. It depends on the people. After all, just imagine a world where everyone followed Jesus' teaching to the letter. It would be a world where everyone loved everyone else, a world where people lived in harmony and shared everything, a world without violence or hatred. If such a world could exist, it would be Utopia.

Proof is for mathematics. Evidence, however, is what I need. And all I need is history, and the present times. The Islamic terrorists are fundies, yes? It's all a matter of what people interpret their religion to be for them.

Terrorists are fundamentalists, yes, but the reverse is NOT also true. Not all fundamentalists are terrorists. Some of them are very kind, altruist people.

The number of pacifists versus the number of violent religious people is one-sided, the latter. The stronger the christian, the more intense are their views, and the more likely they would be violent in certain situations. And the more likely they would dislike other views. People can practice what Jesus taught without being so damn serious about the bible stories, the bible, or god. But those who don't, can be pretty violent.

The stronger the Christian, the more intense are their views, and the more likely they would be loving and compassionate people, and turn the other cheek to their enemies.

The violent ones are the weak Christians, who feel very insecure and don't pay too much attention to what the Bible actually teaches.

[Caid Ivik]

I can say, that our Church is against the war in Iraq primarily because it would hurt their relations with Islam leaders...

[Emperor Harkonnen]

no the church is against it because the church and christianity stand for humanity, and carres for other people. The whole christianity is about the wellware of the individual person.

[Acriku]

Edric, you call yourself a christian, yes? Have you completely and without error followed everything Jesus teaches? No. So how do you expect the world to if they all followed him?

[Edric O]

I was talking about the perfect Christian world, Acriku. Just like you were talking about your own version of a perfect world (the secular one).

And while I do of course have many sins and I certainly haven't "completely and without error" followed Jesus' teachings, I also haven't killed anyone or instigated any violence. I try to do my best to be a kind and compassionate person, even to my enemies (although I can slip up and get angry sometimes, I've never went beyond verbal arguments against anyone). And I never claimed to be anywhere among the best Christians in the world. Far from it! There are many, MANY others who follow Jesus' teachings far better than I do.

Therefore, my point stands:

The stronger the Christian, the more intense are their views, and the more likely they would be loving and compassionate people, and turn the other cheek to their enemies.

The violent ones are the weak Christians, who feel very insecure and don't pay too much attention to what the Bible actually teaches.

[Aeris]

Maybe there can be a perfect world with all Christians, but if so, then there could also be so with all atheists. Or a mixed group as long as people are kind and open to different ideas. If you are in a religion like christianity it just means you're probably more likely to be peace-going. But some people look at what the bible says and interpret it so that they take violent actions. (If you believe that you are doing something truly good, yet are doing evil, would that make you more evil or good <psycologically>?)

[Acriku]

As if atheists are more likely to be pro-war? ::) Go to atheistnetwork.com and check out the forum, I am surrounded by anti-war atheists there.

[exatreide]

A totally secular world, that exists peacefully and morally stable...

Yeah, and they have flying pigs as pets. :) Remember, religion is among the least of all causes of conflict. Racism, nationalism, and pure greed will continue to spill rivers of blood, with our without religion. As a matter of fact, without the knowledge that they will be punished after death for their crimes, many people could get far more violent.

Of course, these are aliens we're talking about, so maybe they never even imagined racism, nationalism or personal greed. Maybe they never even invented weapons!

And in that case, we would invade their world, steal their land, herd them into concentration camps and exterminate them. We would then pride ourselves with our brutality and genocidal rage. It's the good ol' human way...

Mankind: Slaughtering defenceless lifeforms since 3000 BC.

Longer than that edric.

Aliens must have weapons of some sort, primitives used spears and sticks to hunt for food. as wold aliens. and then men would chuck them at each other, as most likely aliens would.

You cant get rid of greed, every race must have greed. Becouse greed in a way is self preservation. And you can not have a race with out that.

[DjCiD]

You will never get rid of greed, it is a sin, it is born in our blood since Adam and Eve. We have a sinful nature with a free will to choose as we please. You choose to sin, but you can also choose to have your debt paid. The wages of sin is death, but God was born as a man and was perfect, he never sinned but yet he still laid down his life to pay for ours.

There will never be a perfect Christian world other than Heaven. But Earth will become a almost perfect Atheist world while the Anti-Christ reigns, but that is another topic. ;)

[Acriku]

Oh that's real tough, dying when you are a god ::)

[DjCiD]

He was born a man, just like you and me. He still felt pain as the thorns dug in he still bled as the Cat of nine tails tore the skin from his back. How long could you last hanging from a cross with nails through your wrist? I'm sure I would cry like a girl and pass out before they could get me lifted up.

[Acriku]

How can you say he was god, and still say he was born just like you and me, still felt the thorns and nails, and still cried? Obviously if Jesus was perfect, he wouldn't have died. But he wasn't. If he was real at all, he must have been just a regular Jesus that was made into this big fanatic story.

You rest upon things that were written decades after his death, and do not question the validity of the bible. It's like me holding onto the very words of the Shakespearean play Romeo and Juliet, for truth.

[DjCiD]

I was referring to Jesus who was born as a man. Jesus felt the pain and lived with temptations just like you and me. And you right since he was perfect he didn't have to die, but he chose to. He let himself be taken and beat and mocked and hung like a common criminal, so that we would not have to die a second time. He paid for ours sins when he was sinless.

"made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Cor. 5:21).

Follow Shakespeare if you want I'm not trying to bash anyone or say you're wrong just trying to share what I believe. If possible I would like to read the Bible in its original language. I would enjoy the learning experience.

[Acriku]

Indeed, reading the ancient hebrew would be fascinating.