Why should i believe in God?

[TMA_1]

You dont have to believe in God GZA. so the whole point of asking why you should is silly. You dont want to find God because you are negative to what people say. Break that negativity and then ask the question.

[sneezer3]

What he said. ;D

Its kind of like if you din't support the war. "Why should i support the war?" if you have a negitive attuide towards it. your mind is blinded to the logic behind it.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

Religion is a natural thing. Even the neanderthals had religions, and humans have had it since they first came to this earth.

I am a christian and that will never change. Religion can help a person through difficult times, and helps one psycicaly.

[Acriku]

Religion is a natural thing, sure. Just a simple system of beliefs. How we explain our surroundings. But don't mix theism with religion...

If you want to use god as a crutch to feel better, fine by me. I deal with my problems the way anybody should deal with them - accept them and move on. It may take you a while to do so, but it feels much better to have yourself do it than somebody else.

[Edric O]

And if you want to hide from responsibility, Acriku, that's fine with me. There are people who do not have the strength to admit when they need help, and all I can do is wish them the best of luck.

Never have I claimed any such thing. You could have quite truthfully stated that I am a heretic and irreverent. Instead you chose to post a load of cathartic bunkum.

I was taught at a Catholic school so I had that codswallop drummed into me then. Do you deny that any of the events I listed are stated in the Bible?

Do you deny that God stated "Thou shalt take an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" in the old testament?

Do you deny that in the New testament Jesus stated that when you are hit "Thou shouldst turn the other cheek"?

Oh yes, you have claimed to somehow know the absolute truth... You see, the problem is not with the facts you've cited, it's with your conclusions. Your hypothesis is correct, but the conclusion was nothing more than a personal opinion, and it simply did not follow. It's called the fallacy of non-sequitur.

Of course God's Law changed between the OT and NT - that was the whole point of having a New Testament in the first place. But it is the Law that changed, not God. God does not think in the same way we do, because He is a being FAR more complex. In order for us to understand His will, He needs to reveal it piece by piece, and only when we are ready for it. As we evolve, He can reveal more and in different ways than before.

So, in short, it is humans who changed, not God. This is common knowledge, and I have no idea why the Nun you asked back then gave you such an illogical and impossible answer. Maybe she was in a hurry and had other things on her mind...?

The big bang and the evolution of whales are several billion years apart. In fact the formation of the Solar system didn't occur untill the second generation of star formation. The elements which make up life were generated in the core of the first generation of stars. The molecules that form life have been formed under scientific conditions based upon those found as the Earth began to cool down after its formation.

At no point do we see anything other than natural processes and a normal sequence of events.

Indeed. And it stands to reason that God obviously wanted to build the universe with the tools He created for it - namely our laws of physics. If He wanted to use the full force of his power to create it, He could have simply done it in an instant. But the Bible clearly states that He prefered to wait. And to an infinite being, there is no difference between 6 days and 15 billion years. Besides, it would be arrogant for us to think that God created all this just for our sake. He obviously had other plans as well (in distant parts of the universe, perhaps) which did not concern us at all.

Edric, the baby wasn't crucial to the analogy, it could have been a person in general, I just said it was a baby for the hell of it.

God can just show some piece of evidence that can't be explained otherwise, after all he did it before - why not now? If showing yourself is forcing people to believe then I guess so.

Yes, Acriku, God did that before, and that's part of my point. Do you expect Him to give you proof periodically? Set up a show, perhaps? ::)

As for the analogy, I'm glad we agree that my rebuttal stands. And yes, showing Himself periodically (as you seem to suggest) would be the same as forcing people to believe - everyone would be good out of FEAR. And that's not what God wants.

[Acriku]

Hide from responsibility? What responsibility? To do what god says? Sorry for being a bad boy Edric ::)

But the Bible clearly states that He prefered to wait. And to an infinite being, there is no difference between 6 days and 15 billion years. Besides, it would be arrogant for us to think that God created all this just for our sake. He obviously had other plans as well (in distant parts of the universe, perhaps) which did not concern us at all.

If god is outside of space and time, as you said before, how could he wait? Time is not a factor, so he would have had to enter our finite world while being infinite - yeah that's possible ::) - and then "wait."

Yes, Acriku, God did that before, and that's part of my point. Do you expect Him to give you proof periodically? Set up a show, perhaps?

As for the analogy, I'm glad we agree that my rebuttal stands. And yes, showing Himself periodically (as you seem to suggest) would be the same as forcing people to believe - everyone would be good out of FEAR. And that's not what God wants.

If he really wants me to go to heaven, then he would show me. But if he doesn't, or can't, then I am forced to not believe in him. Shame on you god, shame on you. Everybody already believes in god to get in heaven, or to stay out of hell, they aren't believing because god says so - basic animal behavioral instincts.

[Edric O]

Hide from responsibility? What responsibility? To do what god says? Sorry for being a bad boy Edric

Responsibility to follow a moral law, Acriku. Knowing that your actions will affect your eternal fate is too much for some people to handle.

If god is outside of space and time, as you said before, how could he wait? Time is not a factor, so he would have had to enter our finite world while being infinite - yeah that's possible - and then "wait."

Nice job arguing semantics, Acriku. ::) Alright, I agree that "to wait" wasn't the right verb to use. Is that such a massive problem?

If he really wants me to go to heaven, then he would show me. But if he doesn't, or can't, then I am forced to not believe in him.

Forced? Do not delude yourself, Acriku. You're trying to evade responsibility yet again, by convincing yourself that you are somehow "forced" not to believe... Tell me, how exactly are you "forced"?

Shame on you god, shame on you. Everybody already believes in god to get in heaven, or to stay out of hell, they aren't believing because god says so - basic animal behavioral instincts.

False. There is one counter-example at the very least: myself. I do not follow God to stay out of hell. I do not follow God to go to heaven. I follow God because it is the right thing, and because there is nothing higher or more noble than the God of Love. I don't care if I go to heaven or hell. In fact, there are some things for which I would gladly trade my afterlife.

I live and die for God just as I live and die for Mankind. What happens to me is ultimately irrelevant.

[Acriku]

Responsibility to follow a moral law, Acriku. Knowing that your actions will affect your eternal fate is too much for some people to handle.

I guess I'm just a moral rebel from the south edric ;) Fear my uber-rebellious ways! ...Edric, I have full responsibility for my actions. I have no one to ask for forgiveness, so I can still get into heaven. I answer to myself, the law, and the people. I have morality myself edric, it's true! No lie. :P

Forced? Do not delude yourself, Acriku. You're trying to evade responsibility yet again, by convincing yourself that you are somehow "forced" not to believe... Tell me, how exactly are you "forced"?

If a unicorn is said to exist, and I have no evidence to support such a claim, I am forced to not believe it due to my rationality.

Why is it the right thing? Because god says so. And what happens when you disobey god? You go to hell. Hmm...

[Edric O]

I guess I'm just a moral rebel from the south edric. Fear my uber-rebellious ways! ...Edric, I have full responsibility for my actions. I have no one to ask for forgiveness, so I can still get into heaven. I answer to myself, the law, and the people. I have morality myself edric, it's true! No lie.

Oh, I have no doubt about that. But you see, your morality carries no consequences. (except the law, of course, but that's not your own morality)

If a unicorn is said to exist, and I have no evidence to support such a claim, I am forced to not believe it due to my rationality.

You forgot to mention that the only evidence you accept is either impossible or unreasonable.

Acriku, I refuse to believe that a person like you does not understand the basic concept of going beyond petty instincts and hedonism to follow a cause greater than oneself. I do not fear hell, nor do I long for heaven. I wish to do God's will for its own sake, because it is a just and noble ideal, worth sacrificing for.

Do you have no ideals, Acriku?

[Acriku]

The fact that I don't have a heaven or hell hanging over me while I still uphold my morales shows I am stronger so nanner nanner :P

I am just the same, but for Humanity. For the good of all humankind. It scares me that humankind is second on your list.

[Edric O]

he fact that I don't have a heaven or hell hanging over me while I still uphold my morales shows I am stronger so nanner nanner :P

How does denying the existence of any consequences for your actions mean you're "stronger", again...?

(by the way, is it just me or is this "I'm stronger than you" argument getting more and more childish?)

I am just the same, but for Humanity. For the good of all humankind. It scares me that humankind is second on your list.

Oh, really? Allow me to doubt that. I never saw you reject hedonism. In fact, you support it, from what I remember.

And I thought you didn't believe in God. You do of course realize that if there is no God, He does not have a will for me to follow, so Humanity is de facto first on my list...

[Acriku]

Because I have nothing making me uphold my morales. You have your heaven and hell hanging over you, and I have nothing. After all, according to sneezer I should be naked whalloping through the forests scavenging for food. We both have the law, but somethings the law doesn't apply to. Like having sex with a drunk girl. You have the almighty god that'll whip your tush if you take advantage of this girl, and have sex. But I have nothing. It isn't against the law to have sex. But I still wouldn't do it.

Hey, what's wrong with hedonism? As long as it isn't the full desire for pleasure, whereas I take it in doses (and pleasure could be many things, for myself it wouldn't be sex, it would be playing Xbox. Or reading a great book. That stimulates my senses, and my imagination.). I should also mention I'm somewhat of a sadist. I purposely commit myself to self-inflicted pain, to develop a lesser feeling to pain. And it works! I can actually convince myself that pain is pleasure, and then I just make the injury worse (keeping it safe and non-lethal) to increase it. Thus, increasing my capacity for pain. After dislocating your knee three times, pain is something you get used to.

We don't know if god exists or not, so you still believe in it and I still don't believe in it. You still have god as numero uno, I still have humanity as numero uno.

[Edric O]

Because I have nothing making me uphold my morales. You have your heaven and hell hanging over you, and I have nothing. After all, according to sneezer I should be naked whalloping through the forests scavenging for food. We both have the law, but somethings the law doesn't apply to. Like having sex with a drunk girl. You have the almighty god that'll whip your tush if you take advantage of this girl, and have sex. But I have nothing. It isn't against the law to have sex. But I still wouldn't do it.

I thought I already told you heaven and hell are not important to me. I do not fear God, and I never did. I love God. That's the whole point of it all. He is the God of love and mercy, and love and mercy is what He wants us to live by.

Hey, what's wrong with hedonism? As long as it isn't the full desire for pleasure, whereas I take it in doses (and pleasure could be many things, for myself it wouldn't be sex, it would be playing Xbox. Or reading a great book. That stimulates my senses, and my imagination.).

Well, then it's not hedonism. Hedonism involves putting yourself (your personal pleasure, that is) before anything else. So, you're not a hedonist... I respect you for that. But then tell me, what are the things you put above yourself?

What are your ideals, Acriku? And why do you have hose particular ideals?

I should also mention I'm somewhat of a sadist. I purposely commit myself to self-inflicted pain, to develop a lesser feeling to pain. And it works! I can actually convince myself that pain is pleasure, and then I just make the injury worse (keeping it safe and non-lethal) to increase it. Thus, increasing my capacity for pain. After dislocating your knee three times, pain is something you get used to.

There's only one thing I can say to that: Ouch. :)

We don't know if god exists or not, so you still believe in it and I still don't believe in it. You still have god as numero uno, I still have humanity as numero uno.

And that is bad because...?

Remember that the will of God implies the Salvation and the happiness of Humanity.

[Acriku]

What are your ideals, Acriku? And why do you have hose particular ideals?

Wide-spread knowledge, not myths or lies. Also, for the prosperity and longitude of humankind. For the ever-continuing pursuits of truth. For the prosperity of my country as well, and this year I will be joining the Marines so watch out ;)

And that is bad because...?

Oh nothing...Nothing but the ever-echoing words, "For Allah" before the whole public place is blown to smithereens. People who put god before anything else are dangerous, and should be kept on close watch.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

That is one of the reasons why religion bothers me.

"YOU" have to believe in god to go to heaven, if god was so good. Why aren't the people that performed good deeds, like helping a nation that has somekind of disease and you invent a medicine against it go to heaven? Just because he doesn't believe in god?

And that's why I believe in reincarnation.

[Edric O]

Oh nothing...Nothing but the ever-echoing words, "For Allah" before the whole public place is blown to smithereens. People who put god before anything else are dangerous, and should be kept on close watch.

Oooh, so I'm dangerous? Thank you, I'm flattered. ;D

However, since I don't believe in Allah, I'm afraid that little comment has nothing to do with me.

You see, my God is a god of love, mercy and compassion. By putting Him above all else, I put those 3 values above all others. I serve God, and therefore I serve the ideals of love, mercy and compassion.

Is that what you are opposed to, Acriku?

Wide-spread knowledge, not myths or lies. Also, for the prosperity and longitude of humankind. For the ever-continuing pursuits of truth. For the prosperity of my country as well, and this year I will be joining the Marines so watch out.

You're joining the armed forces? Funny, I never thought of you as the type that lets himself be brainwashed...

IMO, knowledge is only a tool for the prosperity and happiness of Mankind, not an end in itself. But that's just a purely personal opinion.

Sard-Kirov:

"YOU" have to believe in god to go to heaven, if god was so good. Why aren't the people that performed good deeds, like helping a nation that has somekind of disease and you invent a medicine against it go to heaven? Just because he doesn't believe in god?

Actually, they DO go to heaven.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Odd, someone said that only people that believes in god go to heaven. They must wrong, I guess.....

But still, even if they don't perform any good deeds, they are still send to hell and that is what bothers me.

???

[TMA_1]

In the bible, it mentions the white throne judgment. Unbelievers and believers are judged on the basis of their works. It would be like this, Your dad tells you to wash dishes. You absolutely hate to do that, so you decide to clean up your room, sweep, dust and so on so he will overlook his request. When he comes home though he punishes you. He tells you, "You did a lot of good things, but I told you to wash the dishes. The good things you did are meaningless because of your own purpose behind it. So you have to be punished."

Thats just an example. I know, really bad.lol Only believers go to heaven. No sense in arguing, its just the way it is.

[sneezer3]

Thats just an example. I know, really bad.lol Only believers go to heaven. No sense in arguing, its just the way it is.

Let me modify it slightly and give a better one. You were on the right track though. ;)

If your Dad told you to clean your room, if you don't your grounded. But instede you do the dishes you do your home work, you clean all the clothes. You do all a whole lot of stuff then your dad comes home and "why din't you clean your room? Your grounded."

In the same way, God told us to get saved by praying to God and asking him into your heart, Now the works are good and they'l give you a good day. But won't get to heaven.

[Acriku]

However, since I don't believe in Allah, I'm afraid that little comment has nothing to do with me.

You see, my God is a god of love, mercy and compassion. By putting Him above all else, I put those 3 values above all others. I serve God, and therefore I serve the ideals of love, mercy and compassion.

Is that what you are opposed to, Acriku?

The fact that you put god before anything else is dangerous. People can do many things by putting god before anything else. Who's to stop you from suddenly seeing something against god, and you become fully enraged and decide to blow up a few people? No one. It doesn't matter what god teaches, people will still do horrible things because they put him first. You are no different than the suicidal bombers. There is no matter what their god teaches, and what your's teaches, it is still going to be YOU who commit the act.

You're joining the armed forces? Funny, I never thought of you as the type that lets himself be brainwashed...

This was a personal decision, so if you want to sit on your ass all day and not do a thing for your country - fine. I choose to defend my country against all enemies, while you sit on your chair talking.

[TMA_1]

yeah, that was better written.lol

It still hurts the pride though buddy. ;)

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Acriku, it's all about the religious leaders. The Islam has alot of those lunatic jerks that keeps saying.

" Die for Allah! And he shall reward you! "

They are misguiding the people.

[Acriku]

Kirov, again it is not the teacher that commits the act, it is the delusional. Terrorists can work alone no? The KKK brought their justification from this loving god, so why can't any other people?

[Aeris]

Let me modify it slightly and give a better one. You were on the right track though. ;)

If your Dad told you to clean your room, if you don't your grounded. But instede you do the dishes you do your home work, you clean all the clothes. You do all a whole lot of stuff then your dad comes home and "why din't you clean your room? Your grounded."

In the same way, God told us to get saved by praying to God and asking him into your heart, Now the works are good and they'l give you a good day. But won't get to heaven.

What if someone doesn't have access to information about God? Do you think they will go to Hell? And don't tell me they could find a way, because some people can't.

[Aeris]

I messed up the quote thing~you get the idea, though.