Why should i believe in God?

[Navaros]

gzakiller answered his own question

why you should believe in God, is so you don't burn in Hell for eternity. since you know that's what God said, then do what he said 'cause you might not care now but when you're actually *in* Hell, then you'll care ;D

btw Saddam never threatened his people. if he did, then some of them would have done what is naturally human to do, like you gzakiller are doing to God, which is to rebel

if Saddam threatened his people like you say he did, he wouldn't have got a 100% Vote in the election because some people would have voted against him just to spite his wrath

[Acriku]

I think the Iraqi citizens did rebel before, only to be crushed by Saddam's army. And he got a 100% vote because the voters were forced to vote for only Saddam because he is a dictator and there are guys with guns lol.

[sneezer3]

There is evidence for God you have to look closely to find it. Like a whale for example is part mammal.

as for me to "prove" God exsists, "prove" to me over the internet the moon isn't made out of cheese then i'l prove God exists. I'm not talking about reasoning i'm talking about proff. ;)

Hell isn't there just to punish people that won't believe. Its there because we sinned and sin requires a payment. Romans 6:23 tells us "for the wages of sin is death" As in spiritual death which is eternal seperation from God. You have two choices.

1: Pay for it yourself

2: Let God pay for it for you.

The second half of that verse says "But the gift of God is eternal life though Jesus Christ are Lord." 1 or 2 the choice is yours

[Acriku]

Kirk how in the world is a whale being part mammal - even though it is entirely mammalian - evidence for a god? There is none. You, who already has made up your mind, are finding things that may remotely and vaguely and so-out-of-this-world connect with a god. But what god? It may simply point to any god. Perhaps Zeus? Or Thor? It does not point to your god.

I can provide you evidence that the moon isn't made out of cheese, as for proof - leave that up to math problems. Such is for any god, you can't prove it exists. You can only provide evidence. And reason can be used as evidence.

Hell is a payment? A finite action for an infinite payment? Yeah that's a real payment sneezer...

[Warlord Ripskar]

In the Old testament god makes bold sweeping statements rather in the manner of Emprworm. He announces his policy in stone, wipes out all life save for some nutter in a tub, destroys an army in a sea which suddenly dries out, removes a couple of cities from existance and declares an eye for eye as policy on law and order.

In the New testament he says absolutely nothing.

All this "god is oh so merciful and forgiving" stuff is stated by Jesus, not God.

Conclusion A) Jesus has nothing to do with it and is simply spouting populist drivel.

Conclusion B) The whole thing was made up in the first place.

[SurlyPIG]

If you mean the Christian God, Elite, you don't have to and shouldn't. There's no reason to. And there's ample reason not to, mainly the self-contradictions and illogicalities such as mentioned in this thread. Some see it differently but that's their choice.

[sneezer3]

Kirk how in the world is a whale being part mammal - even though it is entirely mammalian - evidence for a god? There is none. You, who already has made up your mind, are finding things that may remotely and vaguely and so-out-of-this-world connect with a god. But what god? It may simply point to any god. Perhaps Zeus? Or Thor? It does not point to your god.

Well duh, it shows Intelligent Design.

I can provide you evidence that the moon isn't made out of cheese, as for proof - leave that up to math problems. Such is for any god, you can't prove it exists. You can only provide evidence. And reason can be used as evidence.

You can't provide any proof over the internet. If you provided a picture you could have drew it up yourself. If you provided logic that would not be evidence. It is practicly impossable to give evidence for anything over the internet. Thus impossable to give "evidence" there is a God over the internet. Just like it would be impossable to give evidence the moon isn't made out of green cheese.

There is evidence everwere if you muse(think). Look at Saturns rings for example, it would require God to pack its rings togather. It is a well known fact that Saturn is loseing its rings. I hear they found seashells on mountains(the flood). Before the Flood, the mountains were not as high as today, and the ocean valleys were not as deep. enormous underwater volcanic activity of the Flood (the fountains of the great deep Genesis 7:11) and carved out by the rapid draining away of the waters into the valleys. Even if i presented evidence in person though somehow i don't think it would convince you. Second to last that was directd to GZA, not you.

Lastly Warlord Ripskar, God gave them rules and told them what was sin and what wasn't. God wiped out life then because everone was very evil Sodomites etc, evil was everwere. He had a reason for the rest you stated though i won't go into detail for now. and Jesus is God.

[Acriku]

Again, sneezer, proof is not something to use for anything other than mathematical problems. In anything else, evidence is used. First off, in any claim you must provide evidence to enforce the validity of that claim. To make the claim that the moon is made of cheese, you must bring evidence. And reasoning comes into it, as well.

Well duh, it shows Intelligent Design.

How does a whale show ID? In the first case, the ID theory is a bunch of hooey. People say that they see all of this design, so complex, that it must have a designer. Well many things can be complex and perfect from natural causes. Such as the snowflake - the effects of cold temperature and water form this beautiful, perfect flake. Perfectly natural cause. Quark crystals, perfectly natural cause.

I hear they found seashells on mountains(the flood).

They found shells inside the mountains, which would not be the case if there was a flood 5000 years ago. Also, it would make sense because mountains were all once underwater, and then pushed up by tectonic plates.

Second to last that was directd to GZA, not you.

Too bad?

You cling onto this god and his "son" with no reasoning, or logic, and for you to just claim these things without evidence is just showing how brainwashed you are. If you were growing up with rational parents that taught science and reason and logic, instead of religion, then you would probably be a good person to talk to about evolution and the big bang, etc.

[Warlord Ripskar]

Whale shows intelligent design?

No, it shows the result of natural selection. ie, Survival of the fittest, the implication being that the unfit die.

Every day a gazelle wakes up, it knows that to survive it must outrun the fastest Cheetah. Every day a Cheetah wakes up, it knows to survive it must outrun the slowest gazelle. Result; both get faster because the slower ones die.

When the ancestors of whales returned to the ocean they had to adapt to their new surroundings, those that didn't drowned.

God as stated in the Old testament is vengeful and unforgiving. Jesus was an itinerant carpenter who had a sideline in rabble rousing, God obviously didn't like this Jesus bloke claiming falsehoods about him so had him crucified.

[Acriku]

What's funny is that so many worship Jesus and the cross, and yet thou shalt not worship any idols, nor bow before anyone but God. Many verses show that Jesus was separate from God.

[Warlord Ripskar]

The crucifix is sublime in its role as symbol.

It's like trying to show support for French monarchy by wearing a miniture guilotine!

[sneezer3]

Too bad?

You cling onto this god and his "son" with no reasoning, or logic, and for you to just claim these things without evidence is just showing how brainwashed you are. If you were growing up with rational parents that taught science and reason and logic, instead of religion, then you would probably be a good person to talk to about evolution and the big bang, etc.

acriku i'm not going to debate with you in someone elses thread. Thats why i said it was directed to him, I gave him a reason let him respond. I have better things to do then listen to "how illogical i am" and how my "parents raised me in religion"(whom you haven't even meet btw) etc, along with other personl insultes. Let the guy respond with what he thinks don't start a debate in his thread. I'm going to get the last responce if you want to reply and not cansider it like you have been doing just make it in a new thread for crying out loud. :P (i'm making a new post as you read.)

[Acriku]

Don't say anything that would spark offtopic debate then. You were acting like a troll before, so stick with the topic and only to the topic. I look forward to this new thread.

[sneezer3]

Again, sneezer, proof is not something to use for anything other than mathematical problems. In anything else, evidence is used. First off, in any claim you must provide evidence to enforce the validity of that claim. To make the claim that the moon is made of cheese, you must bring evidence. And reasoning comes into it, as well.

Online you can't "prove" anything like it or not. Prove to me without any dought that there is a moon up there(which i belive it btw) Then i'l prove to you there is a God. you can't because anything you present will be insuffent, i could claim its a UFO for example in the sky and could counter any arguement you could possabley make. Thus i hope you can see my logic on how i can't "prove" to you there is a God. because any thing i could possablely say you could counter with stuff like "i can't see God" how about "that isn't the moon thats a UFO thats been here for years"

any aruguement there is a counter and therefore impossable to "prove"

How does a whale show ID? In the first case, the ID theory is a bunch of hooey. People say that they see all of this design, so complex, that it must have a designer. Well many things can be complex and perfect from natural causes. Such as the snowflake - the effects of cold temperature and water form this beautiful, perfect flake. Perfectly natural cause. Quark crystals, perfectly natural cause.

You can get some things from natural causes but not other things, such as a whale or life from the big bang. Do you read in this in the paper?

Extra Extra read all about it! A whole dictionary formed from a printing facility explodeing!

No, You can't get life from non life.

I hear they found seashells on mountains(the flood). They found shells inside the mountains, which would not be the case if there was a flood 5000 years ago. Also, it would make sense because mountains were all once underwater, and then pushed up by tectonic plates.

I ment ontop of the mountains.(context clues?)

Don't say anything that would spark offtopic debate then. You were acting like a troll before, so stick with the topic and only to the topic. I look forward to this new thread.

What i said was perfectly ontopic, you threw it off with something directed to someone else, without even giveing him a chance to respond. i gave a reason you only threw it off by questioning sources details etc.

[Warlord Ripskar]

Baseline error, you assume that everything happened at once. Take your example of a dictionary.

It contains the words of a language.

That language did not pop into existance overnight.

It forms word by word and what is more spellings change over time and the language itself becomes more complex and precise.

This effect can be seen in action in differences which have accumulated in the past 200 years between British English and American English.

Colour has degenerated into Color.

Haemoglobin became Hemaglobin.

We even see it happening before our eyes whenever Bush makes a speech.

Exactly the process has happened in the genetic code.

ADDAGCCAADGGGCCCADDGGADD can easily become,

ADDAGCGAADGGGCCADDGGADD.

That happens every time someone gets cancer or do you refute evidence of the existance of cancer?

most such mistakes lead to genes not making sence and are fatal, however some mistakes are actually beneficial and those organisms with them survive more often than those without. That is why some diseases are becoming immune to antibiotics.

Antibiotics wipeout all non-immune microbes, only those that survive reproduce, which means that all of the next generation will be immune.

SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST.

[sneezer3]

It could not have lasted that long due to many scientific facts. Go back in time much at all and you have all sorts of problems.

Also, it would only explode once if the Big Bang is what that somehow made the laws of Thermodynamics along with the universe.

edit: one of my old points "if there was evidence it would be ignored"

[Edric O]

You call it passive action, I call it negligence. A baby is sitting on the rail facing outwards. You watch her back from 2 feet away. Oh no! She is slipping off! You stand there. And wait. She doesn't cry out for help, she doesn't know anybody is there. Analogous to not knowing god. You stand there. And wait. You just recently told your friend inside that you want every baby to live a full life and prosper. You hear the splat. You go back inside. This is what I see god doing. I have my back turned to him, I fall when I die, and I go splat into hell. god could have saved me, could have pulled me off the rail and set me down. Nope, indeed he stands 2 feet away watching. He knows I do not know he is there, but does nothing.

You forget two things:

1. We are not talking about babies, we are talking about adults who are very much aware of the meaning of responsibility and making decisions. So, in effect, it's not at all like a baby sitting on a rail. It's like a man who wants to jump off a tall building and commit suicide. He doesn't want your help, and even shouts at you to leave him alone.

2. What you are proposing is that God should force people to do things against their will - you're saying He should force Salvation on everyone, whether they like it or not. You want Him to MAKE every single person do good... in other words, you support complete mind control and the abolishment of free will.

...and then you accuse GOD of being too authoritarian. ::)

God as stated in the Old testament is vengeful and unforgiving. Jesus was an itinerant carpenter who had a sideline in rabble rousing, God obviously didn't like this Jesus bloke claiming falsehoods about him so had him crucified.

Ah, so I see, you know exactly what God thinks and wants. You *know* that God did this and that, and you *know* that Jesus was not Him. You alone hold the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. We ought to praise and worship you, O great prophet of prophets! ::)

In the New testament he says absolutely nothing.

All this "god is oh so merciful and forgiving" stuff is stated by Jesus, not God.

I wonder... why do atheists always insist on interpreting the Bible in their own twisted way, and then claiming all high and mighty that they speak the pure, absolute truth, all other interpretations being utterly false?

[Navaros]

What's funny is that so many worship Jesus and the cross, and yet thou shalt not worship any idols, nor bow before anyone but God. Many verses show that Jesus was separate from God.

most true. real Christians don't tend to do that, but Catholics do. they commit Idolatry by kneeling before/praying to/carrying as trinkets/ Graven Images of Mary and Jesus, the Cross etc. God ain't cool with that. He's gonna whup them really good for committing Idolatry in His name

[Acriku]

Sneezer I thought you were going to make a new thread? I'll continue over there when you make it.

Edric, the baby wasn't crucial to the analogy, it could have been a person in general, I just said it was a baby for the hell of it.

God can just show some piece of evidence that can't be explained otherwise, after all he did it before - why not now? If showing yourself is forcing people to believe then I guess so.

Arohk - yeah I've seen many catholics do this, and they say that they aren't worshipping Mary, just giving the proper respects to her ::)

[Warlord Ripskar]

Where exactly does the Bible or any other text state that Jesus is God?

Or have you possibly made that up?

The big bang and the evolution of whales are several billion years apart. In fact the formation of the Solar system didn't occur untill the second generation of star formation. The elements which make up life were generated in the core of the first generation of stars. The molecules that form life have been formed under scientific conditions based upon those found as the Earth began to cool down after its formation.

At no point do we see anything other than natural processes and a normal sequence of events.

[nampigai]

gzakiller answered his own question

why you should believe in God, is so you don't burn in Hell for eternity. since you know that's what God said, then do what he said 'cause you might not care now but when you're actually *in* Hell, then you'll care ;D

btw Saddam never threatened his people. if he did, then some of them would have done what is naturally human to do, like you gzakiller are doing to God, which is to rebel

if Saddam threatened his people like you say he did, he wouldn't have got a 100% Vote in the election because some people would have voted against him just to spite his wrath

Oh? Saddam never threated his people? When he came to power in 1979 (I believe the year was 79 but not sure) he sat calmly and said out names who soposedly was against him. They were then dragged out, all resistence was useless, and killed.

At the end of the first gulf war Bush said that he thought that the Shia moslems and Kurds should rebel, so they did (expecting to get support from the world) but they didn't instead they were slaughtered.

He kills even family members who as much as look at him in a way he disslike. Yet you say he don't threaten his people?

As for why you should believe in God, I haven't the answer I believe it's up to yourself to find it. For me it makes no difference what you believe in I'm sure many Hindus or Buhdists can come up with as many proofs for the beliefs as any christian. I believe what I feel is right, and not what people tells me to.

[Acriku]

Jn.8:58

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

There are verses that has Jesus spouting that he is god, and then there are verses that say he and god are separate.

[sneezer3]

Where exactly does the Bible or any other text state that Jesus is God?

Or have you possibly made that up?

Jesus and God are in a way the same person, its called the Trinity.

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Though its a little beyond are understanding of are finite minds. Jesus and God are one person, A good example is three ice cubes. Pretend these are ice cubes.

O O O

Freze them togather

OOO

You got three in one, God and Jesus are about the same.

other verses

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Philippians 2:5-7

The big bang and the evolution of whales are several billion years apart. In fact the formation of the Solar system didn't occur untill the second generation of star formation. The elements which make up life were generated in the core of the first generation of stars. The molecules that form life have been formed under scientific conditions based upon those found as the Earth began to cool down after its formation.

At no point do we see anything other than natural processes and a normal sequence of events.

Little bit off topic, but there are to many facts that get in the way of that.

http://www.chick.com/bc/2000/time.asp

[Warlord Ripskar]

LOL! You honestly believe that the universe is 6000 years old?!? ::)

Humans are generally acceopted to have evolved to a state recogniseable from oher primates aproximately 3 million years ago.

I take it you believe Dinosaurs never existed.

Woolly Mammoths commonly found frozen in the Northen permafrost are almost always over 10,000 years old so they never existed according to that source.

Neanderthals dissapeared from the fossil record about 40,000 years ago so they must never have existed.

The historical record of Egypt go back 7,000 years and the Sumerian records predate them by a considerable time.

To answer Edric O.

Ah, so I see, you know exactly what God thinks and wants. You *know* that God did this and that, and you *know* that Jesus was not Him. You alone hold the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. We ought to praise and worship you, O great prophet of prophets!

Never have I claimed any such thing. You could have quite truthfully stated that I am a heretic and irreverent. Instead you chose to post a load of cathartic bunkum.

I was taught at a Catholic school so I had that codswallop drummed into me then. Do you deny that any of the events I listed are stated in the Bible?

Do you deny that God stated "Thou shalt take an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" in the old testament?

Do you deny that in the New testament Jesus stated that when you are hit "Thou shouldst turn the other cheek"?

When questioned about that very point one of the Nuns at my school claimed that God was wrong to start with, and that he had changed his mind. Does that sound like an all knowing being?

[Elite47]

I don't actually believe in God, I just wanted to know why i *should* believe in him.I'm Just observing...

You religious people, all have a million different opinions and/or variations of opinion on the same thing. You guys say Hell doesnt exist or it does, God is Jesus or maybe he isn't ... how can you all be Christians when you don't even believe the same thing.

I think a lot of Christans are just scared of going to Hell so its like an automatic thing to believe in God. Or perhaps they just 'say' they believe in him when they really don't. You say you're a Christian so you won't go to Hell. Well If you're a Christian i think you should all follow and believe in the same thing instead of changing the rules. You can't believe in PARTS of the bible. You can't just agree with SOME things. All Christians should follow the same rules: But they don't and thats why i conclude that a good majority of Christians are phony(Because they're scared of Hell or some other dumb reason).