Liberals & Conservatives

[DukeLeto]

It appears that some people have the wrong impression of the meanings of "liberal" and "conservative".

Let's start with dictionary definitions:

Liberal

lib·er·al

adj

1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others

2. politics progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual

3. generous: generous with money, time, or some other asset

My great-aunt was liberal in her bequests.

4. generous in quantity: large in size or amount

a liberal helping

5. language not literal: not limited to the literal meaning in translation or interpretation

6. arts culturally oriented: concerned with general cultural matters and broadening of the mind rather than professional or technical study

a liberal education

7. history of political liberalism: relating to a political ideology of liberalism

n (plural lib·er·als)

liberal person: somebody who favors tolerance or reform

[14th century. Via French from Latin liberalis , from liber “free” (source of English liberty). The underlying sense is “suitable for a free (later wellbred) person.”]

Conservative

con·ser·va·tive

adj

1. reluctant to accept change: in favor of preserving the status quo and traditional values and customs, and against abrupt change

2. of conservatism: associated with, characteristic of, or displaying conservatism

3. cautious and on the low side: cautiously moderate and therefore often less than the final outcome

Several hundred dollars is probably a very conservative estimate.

4. conventional in appearance: conventional or restrained in style and avoiding showiness

a conservative suit

5. using minimum medical intervention: designed to help relieve symptoms or preserve health with a minimum of medical intervention

n (plural con·ser·va·tives)

1. traditionalist person: somebody who is reluctant to consider new ideas or accept change

2. supporter of conservatism: somebody who supports the doctrine or beliefs of conservatism.

OK, but naturally dictionary definitions aren't enough.

In politics, one who is "liberal" is more willing to base their policies on their own convictions rather than what the party tells them. John McCain ® and Bill Clinton (D) are both "liberals".

"Conservatives" are more likely to "tow the party line"; they do what their party tells them, more or less, and hold party vlues above personal ones. G. W. Bush ® and Al Gore (D) could be considered "conservative".

However, some people immediately associate "liberal" with Democrats and "conservative" with Republicans. This is not always true; there are liberal (often called "radical") Republicans and conservative Democrats. It really is more based on personal convictions.

Finally, being a "liberal" is not bad, though the Republican party often uses the term as a general insult.

If anyone has any comments to add, feel free to do so.

(Note: (D) means Democrat, ® means Republican.)

[exatreide]

pff conservitivs are evil.

heck evil paul new that. Sitting in your forts and not wanting any change, not willing to go out there and fight, only led to there own destruction.

Stagnation is not the way to go.

PROGRESS, PROGRESS,PROGRESS!

[DukeLeto]

That's gonna piss off Empr...he thinks that liberals are scum. "Fight, fight, fight!" ;D

[exatreide]

pff its the truth thought. If it wasnt for the Spartens, The Greeks, The Found fathers we would still be living in Monarchies.

Change Is good. With out change there is decay and decay leads to moral decay which leads to the breaking apart of all civilizations.

We must PROGRESS! :)

[Caid Ivik]

You too generalize. Conservativist doesn't mean that he wants the world stagnating. There are things which must be done, completed and some which should we leave untouched. For example it is fiercely conservative to stay on world stability. Liberal would leave the threat - let they do what they want. But conservativist has some moral values, which give him a responsibility if he has enough power to ensure the stability, so he should eliminate the threats.

[Edric O]

I'm a radical liberal and proud of it! :)

Stagnation is death.

[Anathema]

Conservatism is what killed the Soviet Union.

[Caid Ivik]

So, then everybody hail the conservativists! ;D

Altough Gorby was making some liberal changes in USSR, what enraged the old Breznev's guard. Everybody, who lived in communism should thank him, that he helped to disintegrate it. Now, we are free, and able to post these thanks here.

[DukeLeto]

I'm a radical liberal and proud of it! :)

Stagnation is death.

I couldn't agree more!

I wonder why Empr hasn't replied with his usual "filthy liberal" garbage yet... ::)

[Caid Ivik]

pff its the truth thought. If it wasnt for the Spartens, The Greeks, The Found fathers we would still be living in Monarchies.

Change Is good. With out change there is decay and decay leads to moral decay which leads to the breaking apart of all civilizations.

We must PROGRESS! :)

How could I miss this? ;D

You don't know what is a free-thinker? I think it's liberalism, which caused moral decay.

[emprworm]

"1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others "

lol! This is the last thing a liberal is!! the most intolerant people on this planet are liberals. You will NEVER see 100,000 conservatives holding up signs that say "Clinton is Hitler!" like the absent minded intolerant hatemongering liberals that plague this earth like a disease.

[emprworm]

"con·ser·va·tive

adj 1. reluctant to accept decay in favor of making every attempt to preserving the moral fabric of soceity to resist the entropic principle of human morality and deterioration of soceity."

[Anathema]

Thank you for contributing to the discussion in such a mature manner Emp ::)

[emprworm]

certainly. thats why I am here. :D

[DukeLeto]

Egad Emprworm, now you're arguing with the dictionary. ::)

[Caid Ivik]

"1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others "

lol! This is the last thing a liberal is!! the most intolerant people on this planet are liberals. You will NEVER see 100,000 conservatives holding up signs that say "Clinton is Hitler!" like the absent minded intolerant hatemongering liberals that plague this earth like a disease.

Maybe you haven't understood me. I am not an Oxford expert, by I mean with free-mind someone who don't care about natural moral laws and do freely what he want. Free=liberal.

[Edric O]

Conservatism was what turned the Soviet Union into the backwards, corrupt oligarchy it eventually became. It pulled the USSR away from true communism and into state fascism...

You know, Caid, the truth is that it doesn't matter how much you hate liberalism and change - It's going to happen, whether you like it or not. You can whine and complain and slow down progress with your futile conservatism, but it's going to happen anyway. The world always changes, and no one can stop it.

[DukeLeto]

"con·ser·va·tive

adj 1. reluctant to accept decay in favor of making every attempt to preserving the moral fabric of soceity to resist the entropic principle of human morality and deterioration of soceity."

Mature. ::)

BTW, no matter how much you want to believe, he world-wide drift toward non-Christianity does NOT mean that people have no morals; you don't have to be Christian to be a moral person.

(Oh, conservatives are moral people? These "moral people" ruled that the Jim Crow laws were fine, that blacks could be segregated, etc. while they had control of the Supreme Court in the 1890s.)

[Caid Ivik]

Conservatism was what turned the Soviet Union into the backwards, corrupt oligarchy it eventually became. It pulled the USSR away from true communism and into state fascism...

You know, Caid, the truth is that it doesn't matter how much you hate liberalism and change - It's going to happen, whether you like it or not. You can whine and complain and slow down progress with your futile conservatism, but it's going to happen anyway. The world always changes, and no one can stop it.

That's quite true. But I don't think conservativism was the main cause why they where so elitaristic and slow in reforms. It was their lust for money of course... Imagine you are non-educated peasant raised by heroic participation in the revolt, and now you must create a new financial system. Peasant logic tells: if you have offered something, take it!

I don't hate liberalism, as I don't hate any ideology. Just I think that one, which I support, is worth of being used. Of course the changes will come to this world. But with rational thinking, there is possibility to make them without big losses, which should come with too fast revolutions. That slowering, or better feebling of uncontrollable progress, is conservativistic cause.

[nampigai]

My defination of Conservativism:

for God, King and Country

I believe that we should keep the good parts in the society that works, but gradually change for the better ( without any form of revolution )

The country should be led by an elite, that takes care of lesser fortunate ones. Freedom is set higher than equality. Not everyone is fit to rule. Law and order is held by a strong state.

This is my view (in VERY short terms) of conservativism. I believe it is as great an Utopia as Communism due to the same thing: Greed!

You can compare humans with a fox that crawls into a hencoop, it will kill until no chicken breathes. Humans have sorta the same flaw when they get too much power.

[nemafakei]

For me, being a conservative is treating with respect that which deserves it.

It involves integrity and trustworthiness, and keeping to your word whenever possible.

It implies strictly obeying common decency - avoiding vulgarity, improper behaviour, and similar.

But above all, being a conservative means, to me at least, helping others whenever it is feasible, in any way feasible.

Change occurs. Repressing people does not help. Denial of that is not what I mean when I say I am right-wing. But wherever possible, we shuld try and retain what we can of what was good of the old, and accept most heartily what is good in the new. We should allow people to do as they wish, so long as they do not do net harm to others, whether by physically harming them, miseducating others, or degrading society in general.

[Sneakgab]

Change isn't always good

The barbarians that destroyed most of Greece and all of Rome were not conservatists. They brought about alot of change that led to the period of STAGNATION known as the dark ages

I'm not neccesarily liberal or conservative, but how people always assume drastic change is good and that they should support liberals annoys me. I don't like it when a particular ideology and it's representatives are biased against thanks to short-sightedness that people describe as not being close-minded

Not being close-minded is not automatically assuming that conservatives,theists,e.tc are all close-minded and ignorant or that they they all assume that liberalism and atheism brings about moral decay. Not being close-minded is simply not being close-minded

Speaking of which, liberalism is not being very well presented by the protestors on the streets who seem to protest with very little thought and call themselves liberals. They are a good example of how un-checked liberals who just hate conseratives (thanks to the fore-mentioned assumptions) can be idiots

Of course, most liberals are fortunately not like this

All just IMO of course

[DukeLeto]

They are a good example of how un-checked liberals who just hate conseratives can be idiots

Yes, but it happens the other way around, too, especially when people can't understand this:

Of course, most liberals are fortunately not like this

Take emprworm for example.