Piece of 20th century history

[nemafakei]

"Attack on Guernica was committed by separate Legie Condor bombers, sent by Hitler to show german strength"

Yes; I thought Franco invited Hitler to test out his weapons on the basques who were a thorn in Franco's side throughout.

Nevertheless, Franco certainly ordered the siege and bombing of Bilbao, and the subsequent mistreatment of the entirity of the industrialised Basque country, similarly with Cataluña.

[Davidu]

Edric, I'd like to remind you that Romania had no commitments with Germany or any other country.

We switched sides in order to maintain our independance. Finland did the same...

Oh, and our army wasn't weak... You might think that we had the CZ-ZB rifles and only infantry... I'd like to remind you that we had flamethowers, aviation, tanks (German tanks), artillary, our army was strong enough. We humiliated the russians with our submarine fleet!!

And we had the element of surprise so many German units were caught very easy.

And we didn't attack Russia in order to exterminate them! We fought against them... at Stalingrad, at the Don river and so on, but we didn't go there to exterminate russians. Did the finnish attack USSR in order to exterminate russians?? NO.

I agree that wasn't very honorably to switch sides, but it was the only way. If we wouldn't have done that we would have been overrun by the russians and became a part of USSR. We would have been COUNQUERED!!!

If Antonescu would have been left in peace to do his job, Romania would have left the Axis and the war. But the morone king had to make a stand (adviced by foreign agents) and f**** everything up!

As for honor... to have our honor in one piece we had to oppose both everybody at the start of the war. We should have opposed Hungary (backed up by Germany and Italy), Bulgaria and the USSR. For us the war would have ended in 8-10 days as we would have been sliced up as Poland.

I still say that we did what we had to do in oder to maintain our independance. That is the most important thing of all!

As for joining the Allies at the start of the war... well:

1. we had no chance in winning the battle.

2. the dinasty was Germanic...

3. the Allies had ABSOLUTELY no reaction when Romania had to cease those territories, so they didn't care about us.

[Anathema]

The Netherlands decided to cling on to our neutrality, we ended up getting invaded. But we never accepted the German authority.

[Edric O]

The point is, Davidu, our army was no match for the Germans. To say that we defeated them on our own is utter madness.

Hell, you just said it yourself - the only reason we were able to fend off the Wermacht in 1944 was because the war had turned against them and the Red Army was advancing!

As for switching sides, I agree that we pretty much had no choice but to side with the Axis in the beginning. However, that is NOT an excuse to whine about not getting equal treatment from the Allies later. You would basically tell the Allies: "Hey, sorry we killed a few hundred thousand of your friends and relatives, but you see, it wasn't our fault... can we all just be buddies now?"

We may not have invaded the USSR to exterminate the Russians ourselves, but we fought SIDE BY SIDE with the bastards who did just that. And this makes us just as guilty as them.

And Antonescu was nothing more than fascist scum. He got what he deserved.

[Caid Ivik]

Slovak state created on 14th march 1939 was fascist too. Our units fought in Poland, with teritorial captures, and also in Russia, mostly as recon or support force. But most of them disserted and on 29th august 1944 remaining army in Slovakia, with given commands from exile government, made the uprising against german forces in our land. Altough they had to retreat to mountains, they remained fightning and when our army of disserters, following russian front of marshall Malinovskij, came, we drove them out. At least for last two years we fought on right side. Our army was much bigger then. Same should be for Romanians. Yes, they supported Germany, but they found enough courage to stop with it and beat them.

"Attack on Guernica was committed by separate Legie Condor bombers, sent by Hitler to show german strength"

Yes; I thought Franco invited Hitler to test out his weapons on the basques who were a thorn in Franco's side throughout.

Nevertheless, Franco certainly ordered the siege and bombing of Bilbao, and the subsequent mistreatment of the entirity of the industrialised Basque country, similarly with Cataluña.

So, he invited Germans to help him in war, not for nazist propaganda. Remember that other side had support of half of countries of the world. But of course, he wasn't clean too.

[Davidu]

The WWII if full of crap! Too many wrong things done.

I repeat: it wasn't honorble to turn agaisnt our former allies, but we had to do it in order to eliberate Northern Transylvania.

Edric, maybe you don't believe me when I say that we were a force in those times. Yes, we weren't a match for the Wermacht, but we managed to anihilate all enemy movements pretey quikly.

And you know, before the war, we were the second largest country in this part of Europe (after Poland) and the population was around 23 milion (an aproximation).

[Caid Ivik]

But honorable as part of civilised world. Sorry, but betraying nazism really isn't bad thing ;)

[Davidu]

It wasn't betrayng nazism... it was betrayng an ally.

Oh, and was it good that through this we helped the russians?

SH**! We had to chose the less evil.

I must add one more thing:

WHATEVER WILL WE DO IN THE FUTURE WE SHOULD DO OUR BEST TO PREVENT A WAR ON SUCH A SCALE. There are enough people dead.

[Caid Ivik]

Full scale war won't be. People are enough conscious not to blow themselves with nukes.

[Davidu]

Are you sure? :-

Look at NK. My solution is to turn our eyes towards the skyes. The stars. Deep space colonisation.

That's our future, not UN, USA, Iraq, NK nor any othe power in the world!