Babies going to hell...

[emprworm]

yes, it is.

[Acriku]

And how so? Could Noah not take it, so he cried out to god to stop the big bad bullies? They were mocking him only after he started building the ark, so this is irrelevant. So, mockery is not a reason for doing it.

[DjCiD]

DJ, from those I gather that just born babies that are atheistic do not go to the kingdom in heaven?

Not sure where you got that wrong information from ;) Babies / brevfoß (Definition - (1)an unborn child, embryo, a fetus (2)a new-born child, an infant, a babe) are born into the world unaccountable and clean of sin.

1 Corinthians 7:14

¹⁴For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Seeing as they are born clean and free from sin, if they were to die they would enter the kingdom of God. It isn't until the age of accountability when they can cognitively decide for themselves if they are or aren't an atheist or if they will choose to follow the path of God.

[sneezer3]

Babys go to heaven because they are not guilty of anything they have no accountablity because they never heard of right or wrong. and they don't understand either.

So, there are people like Jack Chick, who believe that Church itself is Satan.

???

No he doesn't, just belives there wrong on some issues, which he's got a point.

[zamboe]

We, Catholics, believe that all human being are born with a sin. That's what is called the original sin.

So, as soon as a baby is born he/she already has a sin, he/she is without sins as soon as he/she is baptised.

[Acriku]

Babies / brevfoß (Definition - (1)an unborn child, embryo, a fetus (2)a new-born child, an infant, a babe) are born into the world unaccountable and clean of sin.

A lot of people believe that you must have faith in the lord, and must ask for forgiveness for all of your sins before you can enter the kingdom of heaven.

[sneezer3]

Babies / brevfoß (Definition - (1)an unborn child, embryo, a fetus (2)a new-born child, an infant, a babe) are born into the world unaccountable and clean of sin.

A lot of people believe that you must have faith in the lord, and must ask for forgiveness for all of your sins before you can enter the kingdom of heaven.

Yes but that don't apply to kids.

Deuteronomy 1:39

Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

you can't argue with me ;D

Baptism will not cleanse a man from sin, only Grace though faith.

[TMA_1]

athiesm takes rationality. Babies dont have that acriku. whoa.lol

[DjCiD]

Great verse heres some more. ;)

1 John 2:1, 2, 12-14

¹My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. ²He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for^[1] the sins of the whole world.

¹²I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.

¹³I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father. ¹⁴I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

[1] 2:2 Or He is the one who turns aside God's wrath, taking away our sins, and not only ours but also

Deuteronomy 31:12,13

¹² Assemble the people-men, women and children, and the aliens living in your towns-so they can listen and learn to fear the LORD your God and follow carefully all the words of this law. ^{13[/aup] Their children, who do not know this law, must hear it and learn to fear the LORD your God}

[SurlyPIG]

I havn't seen any references that even come close to talking about babies or children that die before they reach an age of cognative ability. This should be a serious issue, here. I mean it is for all eternity, right? You'd think...umm...God would have menioned that when he, uhh, 'wrote' the Bible. The closest one would be Gob's quote about the blind, but, again, it's the blind...

For now, I'll take a step back and enjoy watching Acriku logically lay the smack-down on other arguements while Edric hits below the belt. I could point out some of the contradictions in this thread but I havn't the time...

[emprworm]

i have my own opinions on the matter, but its not worth it for me to say them. i've stayed out of this thread.

[Caid Ivik]

We, Catholics, believe that all human being are born with a sin. That's what is called the original sin.

So, as soon as a baby is born he/she already has a sin, he/she is without sins as soon as he/she is baptised.

We will lose the sin, but will always have a, metaphorically, scar on soul, which enables satan to influent us to even worse acts. Newly born doesn't anything, for what it is responsible.

[DjCiD]

The closest one would be Gob's quote about the blind, but, again, it's the blind...

By reading the entire story you learn Jesus is talking of spirtual blindness, not the one's without sight.

John 9:35-41

³⁵Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

³⁶"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."

³⁷Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."

³⁸Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

³⁹Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."

⁴⁰Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?"

⁴¹Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

Although earlier in the chapter Jesus does heal a man who was born blind.

John 9:1-5

¹As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. ²His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

³"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. ⁴As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. ⁵While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

[Acriku]

Dj that story tells me that Jesus came to help the blind see, well why would he do that if the blind can get to heaven? The answer: they can't. They won't. A baby is "blind" so will not go into heaven.

I don't know where it says it, but didn't Jesus regret healing that man?

[DjCiD]

It says in John 9:41 ⁴¹Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

Babies are born blind and would not be guilty of sin, I dont know how many babies out there you know commiting Adultry or worshiping Idol Gods, but I dont know that many ;)

Since they are not blind all their life they will be able to See and Choose to seek forgiveness or if it remains.

[Acriku]

That doesn't say whether or not they can enter the Kindgom of Heaven?

[Gobalopper]

If you haven't sinned what would stop you?

[Acriku]

Lack of faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ.

[TMA_1]

a baby is innocent. Adam and eve were the same in the garden of eden before their fall from grace. A baby has no chance to either accept or deny God. They arent athiests, I mean geesh acriku.lol athiesm requires an acceptance or denial of a philosophy. If you are going to say something say it right. They are ignorant. They are true agnostics. But since they dont have the capacity to understand, they are saved. I pointed it out with david and his baby. he said his baby would be in heaven. I mean what more do you want? your just arguing for the heck of it man.lol

[Acriku]

Agnostics admit that they do not have enough knowledge to prove either side. Ignorance is a passive term, agnosticism is the admittance of not knowing.

Do babies have a belief in god? Answer this tma. Just this. Don't post a paragraph explaining, just answer :)

[Gobalopper]

Believing in God is not what gets you into heaven.

[Acriku]

Really? And all this time I was told I will go to hell even if I am a great guy doing great deeds.

[TMA_1]

and also, babies dont have a chance to not believe or believe. They are neutral. They are saved because they are not at the ability to choose. It isnt whether or not they believe acriku, its that they arent even at the stage to know how to believe or not to believe. your arguement is silly man.lol corny head. ;)

[Gobalopper]

Are you sure you read that right Acriku?

[Acriku]

TMA you have serious misconceptions of atheism. First of all, atheism is the lack of belief in any gods, not the disbelief of any gods.

Now please answer me: Do babies have a belief in god?