Babies going to hell...

Edric O · March 3, 2003

Babies lack the belief of a god. This is elementary, this should not be the debate. Babies are atheists, what is so hard to understand? To say otherwise, you must bring forth evidence to suggest thusly.

Which part of "you have no proof" didn't you understand?

And I'm afraid the burden of proof falls on you this time, my atheist friend. You just said "Babies lack..." - and that is an affirmative sentence. You make the affirmative claim, so it's up to you to prove it.

Acriku · March 3, 2003

Can someone else explain to Edric? I have physical therapy to go to for now, but if no one explained I will be back to do so. Cheerio :)

Edric O · March 3, 2003

By the way - I'm very much aware that I'm being a stubborn ass, but it feels sweet to throw the "if you can't prove it, it doesn't exist" argument right back at an atheist. ;)

TMA_1 · March 3, 2003

its amazing how we think that adult humans are the ones that serve God most, When its nature that does the job so much better than us. Babies do God's work better than any man or woman.

Navaros · March 3, 2003

according to the Bible, those who have never heard about Christ don't go to Hell for not believing in him

of course, the flip side to that coin is, all the missionaries/evangalists are condemning everyone to Hell by telling them about Jesus seeing as most of the people they tell are not going to believe it

so all those atheists/people of other religions who have no knowledge of Christ therefore who were not going to go to Hell, end up becoming hellbound for all eternity as a result of the "good work" of Bible-bashers who condemn them by spreading the "good news of Jesus" ;D

Acriku · March 4, 2003

TMA, "nature" violates almost all the commandments everyday without a thought of regret.

Well cite your verse Arohk :)

I agree with your position towards bible-bashers hehe. ;)

Edric, I'm not the one saying babies are knowledgeable enough right after birth to know of god... ::)

TMA_1 · March 4, 2003

nature does not follow the laws of man. that is why they serve their ways. THey do it without evil or sin. they are incapable of it.

Acriku · March 4, 2003

So why were they all wiped out as well in Noah's flood? They didn't do anything wrong, so why didn't god use his almighty powers to save them? Because he is a cruel god. But let's start another thread rather than go offtopic.

TMA_1 · March 4, 2003

animals are tools of God. They have no cognative soul and no human spirit. They are just a natural resource like any of nature. so they were wiped out. We preserve what God makes because it is here for us. It shouldnt be abused. at the same time, God can do whatever he wants with his creation.

emprworm · March 4, 2003

So why were they all wiped out as well in Noah's flood? They didn't do anything wrong, so why didn't god use his almighty powers to save them? Because he is a cruel god. But let's start another thread rather than go offtopic.

*yawn*. the AIDS virus didn't do anything wrong either. its just trying to survive. it doesn't actually hate anyone.

Edric O · March 4, 2003

Acriku, as an atheist, please explain this to me: How come the thought that the Judeo-Christian God is somehow "cruel" makes most of you feel better about yourselves? Is this a feeling of insecurity I detect?

Do you need to slander other people's beliefs to make you feel better? Is something eating you up from the inside if you don't?

Acriku · March 4, 2003

As an atheist, I would advise you to not generalize me for anybody, I am myself and myself alone.

Think of it as seeing a huge strong bully who made this empire in the playground, I am watching from the swing how cruel he is. Insecurities are irrelevant, if they do exist, they don't change the facts.

I am not slandering, hehe in the other thread you slander me (with two others) for my lack of beliefs, where's the christian love? With my morals, I cannot stand preaching to a god like that. I guess some of us lack the morals I have, or are just blind enough to not see.

Caid Ivik · March 4, 2003

Babies go to hell? Read Jonas' prophecy about that those, who are unable to consider something good or bad aren't also judged.

nampigai · March 4, 2003

IMO hell and satan is invented by the church to make people God fearing. I've been taught to love they neighbourgh, and that the house of God is open for everyone. That's why I believe that who ever you are in life you'll go to heaven (if there is one). I don't like the priests preaching and telling me what to believe or what I shouldn't believe, I'll figure that out myself, fact is that they no nothing more than I do.

Caid Ivik · March 4, 2003

So, there are people like Jack Chick, who believe that Church itself is Satan. But that's same nonsense. Satan was mentioned in Bible's Old Testament and is in most other monotheistic religions. You should hear the priests. They live for explaining the believe, altough they can do a mistake as any other human. But they study believe more than you. It's like "I don't like doctors telling me to stop eating red meat, I know best what hurts me".

nampigai · March 4, 2003

well this is my belief and I'll not tell you to believe it Caid, I just don't really give a damn about priests telling me that if I don't live like this or that I'll go to hell, I don't believe in hell. I know I'm generalising and I know there's good priests I've seen a couple of them in my life, but that doesn't change my view on things. If God created us, he would love us all no matter what we've done in our life. That's my theory.

Caid Ivik · March 4, 2003

Of course His mercy has no limits. I have no imagination how would the doomsday look like, but hell exists, how it is definite no one knows. Primary isn't prevention of punishing our sins, but reward for our good acts.

nampigai · March 4, 2003

hehe well I guess I'll have to wait for the reaper then, but I'll stick to my belief until I'm proven otherwise.

Caid Ivik · March 4, 2003

Just don't WAIT for it ;D

Edric O · March 4, 2003

Namp, it goes like this: Just as you said, God is infinitely merciful and He wants to forgive everyone's sins, but you've just got to accept his forgiveness. You see, you have the right to turn it away if you want.

As for hell, there is one extremely common misconception that needs to be settled: God doesn't condemn anyone to hell. No more than He orders the planets to go around the sun, or the atomic nuclei to keep their cohesion. The fact that human souls go to hell after death is the way things normally are - God does not intervene in any way. The only active intervention from Him is in sending a soul to heaven.

Imagine a stone falling. If you catch it, then it is obviously thanks to you that it didn't fall. But if you simply do nothing, are you to blame for it falling down? It was falling on its own - you had nothing to do with it.

Davidu · March 4, 2003

I'm almost atheistic, but I'll answer the thread anyway: the childreb are pure, so they don't need have a religion in order to go to heaven. It's insane to send someone innocent to hell just because he didn't have time to be baptised.

Anyway - EdricO, you seem to be a different breed of a socialist - all the "classical" communists denied the existence of God.

DjCiD · March 4, 2003

Quoted from the NIV Bible

Matthew 18:2-4

²He called a little child and had him stand among them. ³And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. ⁴Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 19:13-14

¹³Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.

¹⁴Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Acriku · March 4, 2003

Edric, but he doesn't stop them from going to hell. That is negligence, just like a mother letting her baby fall from the building. She doesn't do it, gravity is doing it. But she since she would be hypothetically able to catch her from falling everytime, and she doesn't, she is just as guilty.

Davidu, it is insane, I agree - then again God does insane things. Like killing everybody who is deemed evil by his standards, only to have the new people resort to the same evil, by his standards. Read this for a different perspective.

DJ, from those I gather that just born babies that are atheistic do not go to the kingdom in heaven?

emprworm · March 4, 2003

Edric, but he doesn't stop them from going to hell. That is negligence, just like a mother letting her baby fall from the building. She doesn't do it, gravity is doing it. But she since she would be hypothetically able to catch her from falling everytime, and she doesn't, she is just as guilty.
Davidu, it is insane, I agree - then again God does insane things. Like killing everybody who is deemed evil by his standards, only to have the new people resort to the same evil, by his standards. Read this for a different perspective.
DJ, from those I gather that just born babies that are atheistic do not go to the kingdom in heaven?

lol. i read that story. lets look at this part:

"There was no sign of her man, the gentle father of her child, the husband who she loved so dearly. "

Where was he? He was out mocking Noah. Laughing at the stupid "xian" for being such an irrational geek freak.

Acriku · March 4, 2003

Yep, mockery is definitely a reason to do what God did ::) Ohhhh mockery is so bad, I dare not do it nay a merciless god floods the world again.

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