A world wide nightmare coming in 2008?

[DukeLeto]

Clinton also worked in the Middle East to negotiate peace agreements between Arabs, including Palestinians, and Israelis. Secret negotiations between the nation of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) led to a historic declaration of peace in September 1993. Clinton arranged for the peace accord to be signed at the White House. This agreement paved the way for limited Palestinian self-rule in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip. In July 1994 Clinton helped orchestrate a historic agreement between longtime enemies Israel and Jordan to end their state of war. The leaders of the countries also signed their pact at the White House.

In April 1994 a civil war erupted in Rwanda between Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups. Over the next few months, an estimated 500,000 to 1 million Rwandans, mainly Tutsi, were massacred. Within a few weeks after the war began, millions of people had fled the massacres and repression in the country. With thousands more dying of disease and starvation in refugee camps in neighboring countries, the Clinton administration was under pressure to provide relief. Clinton ordered airdrops of food and supplies for refugees, and in July he sent 200 troops to the Rwanda capital of Kigali to operate the airport and safeguard relief supplies. These troops were withdrawn by October 1994. When Clinton traveled to Africa in 1998, he apologized for the international community’s failure to respond to the massacres.

Another foreign crisis occurred in early 1995, when the value of the peso, the currency of Mexico, began to fall sharply, threatening the collapse of the Mexican economy. Clinton said the collapse of Mexico’s economy would have a harsh effect on the United States because of the economic ties between the two countries. He submitted a plan to Congress to help Mexico ease its financial crisis. Fearing that voters would not favor giving money to Mexico, Congress refused to approve the plan. Clinton then devised a $20 billion loan package for Mexico to restore confidence of investors around the world in the Mexican economy. In January 1997 Mexico announced that it had completed its loan payments to the United States, three years ahead of schedule.

Clinton worked for much of his presidency to end the conflict in Northern Ireland by arranging a peace agreement between the Catholic and Protestant factions. In 1998 George Mitchell, a former United States senator, brokered an accord that became known as the Good Friday agreement. It called for the British Parliament to relinquish administration of the province to a new Northern Ireland assembly that would include members of both religious communities. But months of stalemate followed, partly over the refusal of the Irish Republican Army (IRA), a largely Catholic paramilitary group, to surrender its weapons. Mitchell returned and worked out the blueprint for a further agreement that resulted in December 1999 in the formation of a power-sharing government, which was to be followed by steps toward the IRA’s disarmament. That agreement faltered as well, although Clinton continued to talk to leaders of the factions and British leaders to keep the peace process from collapsing.

In 1996 Clinton signed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT), a landmark international agreement that would have prohibited nuclear weapons testing by all signatory nations. The next year he sent the treaty to the Senate for ratification. In October 1999 the Senate finally voted on the treaty and rejected it. International reaction to the Senate’s action was uniformly negative, and the rejection was a political setback for Clinton, who had lobbied actively for its approval. Despite the rejection of the treaty, Clinton promised that the United States would continue to abide by a policy of not testing nuclear weapons, which had been in place since 1992.

It's amazing how selective you are. ::)

[DukeLeto]

So who did it the right way: Billy Cline-ton or GW Bush?

Neither. ::)

[emprworm]

<snip irrelevant garbage>

Don't play "spin doctor" with me DukeLeto. That kind of red-herring nonsense might work in the "hillary zone" but not in the "no spin zone"

I ask you again, and I will repeatedly ask you until you face the question directly and not toss around a bunch of side stuff trying to wiggle your way out:

in 1998 BIll Clinton bombed Iraq with more than 400 missles and precision bombs. He did not ASK congress, he did not ASK the UN. He did not consult polls or listen to war-protesters. He asked no one. He just did it.

Is Bill Clinton's actions in Iraq 1998 a good example for GW Bush to follow? Did Bill Clinton demonstrate good foreign policy by killing massive women, children with US bombs w/o even so much as one consultation with the UN or congress? Should GW Bush follow clinton's lead in dealing with Iraq?

Answer the question directly. Deal with this fact:

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN. DEAL WITH THIS FACT DIRECTLY AND DONT START POSTING IRRELEVANT SPAM

[emprworm]

LOL! i ask DukeLeto about a specific act of CLinton and what does he do? He quotes his biography! ROFL :D

http://www.knowsouthernhistory.net/Biographies/bill_clinton.htm

ha ha ha. DUKELETO! MAUAHAH ::) :P :D

[DukeLeto]

DONT START POSTING IRRELEVANT SPAM

The good things Clinton did are "irrelevant spam"? The topic IS about Clinton... ::)

BTW:

In December 1998 Clinton ordered four days of intense air bombardments against military installations in Iraq in response to what the Clinton administration said were provocations by the Iraqi military, including antiaircraft fire and radar locks on American planes.

[GhostHunter]

LOL! i ask DukeLeto about a specific act of CLinton and what does he do? He quotes his biography! ROFL :D

http://www.knowsouthernhistory.net/Biographies/bill_clinton.htm

ha ha ha. DUKELETO! MAUAHAH ::) :P :D

Damn Empr how do you get all these links...Your like the url god ;D

[emprworm]

In December 1998 Clinton ordered four days of intense air bombardments against military installations in Iraq in response to what the Clinton administration said were provocations by the Iraqi military, including antiaircraft fire and radar locks on American planes.

Iraq does that to our planes every single day. I guess GW BUsh can now go to war with Hussein w/o asking congress or the UN and you will approve, right?

you see, duke, this is the problem with liberals: they get caught like this and they try to fannaggle their way out, but there is no way out.

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. WHO DID A BETTER JOB?

[DukeLeto]

LOL! i ask DukeLeto about a specific act of CLinton and what does he do? He quotes his biography! ROFL :D

http://www.knowsouthernhistory.net/Biographies/bill_clinton.htm

ha ha ha. DUKELETO! MAUAHAH ::) :P :D

You're an idiot! It's from Britannica; you know, an E-N-C-Y-C-L-O-P-E-D-I-A, one of those hardback papery things? B-O-O-K-S? ::)

[DukeLeto]

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. WHO DID A BETTER JOB?

Bush didn't get UN approval either! That would be like asking to borrow something, they say no, and taking it anyway!

[emprworm]

LOL! i ask DukeLeto about a specific act of CLinton and what does he do? He quotes his biography! ROFL :D

http://www.knowsouthernhistory.net/Biographies/bill_clinton.htm

ha ha ha. DUKELETO! MAUAHAH ::) :P :D

You're an idiot! It's from Britannica; you know, an E-N-C-Y-C-L-O-P-E-D-I-A, one of those hardback papery things? B-O-O-K-S? ::)

to that I reply:

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. IRAQ FIRES DAILY ON ALLIED PLANES IN THE NO-FLY ZONE YET BUSH DOES NOT BOMB IRAQ FOR IT.

WHO IS DOING A BETTER JOB DEALING WITH IRAQ?

[DukeLeto]

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. WHO DID A BETTER JOB?

Bush didn't get UN approval either! That would be like asking to borrow something, they say no, and taking it anyway!

*Cough cough* ::)

[emprworm]

no Spin Doctor Leto. Nice try. Wont work with emprworm. (you should know better :P ::) )

I didn't say anything about permission from the UN. Read carefully:

to that I reply:

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. IRAQ FIRES DAILY ON ALLIED PLANES IN THE NO-FLY ZONE YET BUSH DOES NOT BOMB IRAQ FOR IT.

WHO IS DOING A BETTER JOB DEALING WITH IRAQ?

[emprworm]

COMPARISON OF GW BUSH AND BILL CLINTON REGARDING THE CARPET BOMBING OF IRAQ

[TABLE][TR][TD] [/td][td] B CLINTON -[/TD][TD]GW BUSH [/TD][/TR]

[TR][td]Asked Congress?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from Congress?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Asked the UN?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from the UN?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]unknown[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Carpet Bombed Iraq Anyway?[/td][td]YES[/td][td]unknown[/td][/tr]

[/table]

QUESTION: based upon the undisputed empirical facts of Bill Clinton unilaterally carpet blasting Iraq with 400+ bombs and missles in 1998 w/o asking anyones permission and acting without US congressional approval (and killing all those women & children and not even removing Hussein from power! ::) ), who is dealing with Iraq better?

BUSH OR CLINTON?

OT & PS: wonder where all those left-wingnut human shields were in 1998? Oh wait, they loved Clinton, thats right! Screw the Iraqi people. "we only protect Iraqi's from Bush. Let them die by Clinton's hand!" yea...I get it! ::)

[DukeLeto]

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. IRAQ FIRES DAILY ON ALLIED PLANES IN THE NO-FLY ZONE YET BUSH DOES NOT BOMB IRAQ FOR IT.

WHO IS DOING A BETTER JOB DEALING WITH IRAQ?

IMO, it is worse to repeatedly ask permission, be denied, and do it anyway than to not ask permission and just do it. IMO.

BTW, The Senate HAD to have approved miliary action, or it couldn't be taken. And the Un didn't seem to be in too much of a hurry to stop Clinton... ::)

[SurlyPIG]

Well I agree that I think it'd be great if the US had a female president, or any minority president for that matter, but, really, must it be Hillary? MUST IT BE HILLARY?

ANYONE but Hillary...

She represents New York in the Senate and she's been there like, what, twice...if that?

[emprworm]

IMO, it is worse to repeatedly ask permission, be denied, and do it anyway than to not ask permission and just do it. IMO.

yea, Cowboy Clinton just says "F YOU" to the UN and does his thing. meanwhile, Bush engages in diplomacy while several nations are coming to the side of the coalition. Where Bush has many nations through diplomacy to support him, Clinton went all willy nilly "monica lewinsky" style and rode his white battle stallion in grandiose cowboy imperialist fashion. Wow, what a role model for foreign diplomacy! ::) ::)

BTW, The Senate HAD to have approved miliary action, or it couldn't be taken.

uhh, no you don't. learn your American Law. "Ordinarily, an American president must consult Congress in judicial matters. For example, every federal judge nominated by the president must be approved by the Senate. But because the president is also the nation's military commander, he does not need the Senate's permission to take action regarding defense matters."

It is a nice curtosey to get approval to the house and senate, but Clinton did not. Billy boy just went free-for-all willy nilly doing his thing (to divert attention away from monicas DNA all over his pants most likely ::) )

there was no permission given at all.

wow, what a role model president. While Bush is out seeking permission from the house and congress, and engaging in world diplomacy with our allies, Bill Clinton is "dancing" with monica in the Oval office then launching the missles at a whim like he was going out to smoke a bowl (like he did in his college years) ::) ::)

And the Un didn't seem to be in too much of a hurry to stop Clinton... ::)

of course not. because they are hypocrites. they don't care about innocent Iraqi's. that is a flat out lie. all they care about is hating Bush. if they cared about Iraqi's they would have been outraged that Billy-boy Clinton went all willy nilly cowboy and started bombing Iraq without so much as even TRYING to get permission and at least showing his respect of other nations. These are the kinds of acts that you think "no wonder guys like Zamboe think of the US as imperialists". Clinton just bombing countries at his own liesure not even checking in with America, let alone anyone else. The only thing he checked in was well.....i'll give you a hint: MONICA.

[SurlyPIG]

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

I caught a segment on the radio that reported the US already is bombing Iraq with planes and cruise missles etc. Im not sure where or how much since it was only a headline but you might want to check it out before you rag on Clinton for this.

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. IRAQ FIRES DAILY ON ALLIED PLANES IN THE NO-FLY ZONE YET BUSH DOES NOT BOMB IRAQ FOR IT.

Uhh...so Bush sends PLANES (devices that FLY) into the NO-FLY zone, and when Iraq shoots at those planes, he's enough of a nice guy to not bomb them for it ???right...

[Gobalopper]

The no fly zone was created to protect the people of Iraq, mainly the Kurds, from Saddam. So the no fly zone is patrolled by US and UK planes regularly and has been since the just after the Gulf War I think.

[emprworm]

CLINTON BOMBED IRAQ WITH 400+ MISSLES AND BOMBS W/O ASKING CONGRESS OR THE UN!

I caught a segment on the radio that reported the US already is bombing Iraq with planes and cruise missles etc. Im not sure where or how much since it was only a headline but you might want to check it out before you rag on Clinton for this.

irrelevant. Bush already has approval from congress and has earnestly sought approval from the UN and has support from numerous countries. CLinton sought no approval from congress...clinton sought no approval from the UN and unilaterally struck w/o publicly excercising diplomacy with so much as a single ally. Bush has already done all of that, so there really is no comparison. The true cowboy is Clinton.

BUSH ASKED CONGRESS AND THE UN. IRAQ FIRES DAILY ON ALLIED PLANES IN THE NO-FLY ZONE YET BUSH DOES NOT BOMB IRAQ FOR IT.

Uhh...so Bush sends PLANES (devices that FLY) into the NO-FLY zone, and when Iraq shoots at those planes, he's enough of a nice guy to not bomb them for it ???right...

you missed the part where DukeLeto used "firing at US planes" as somehow to justify Clinton's cowboy diplomacy. Iraq has been firing on planes for 12 years. its nothing new. if it is not justification for Bush to start war, then it was not for Clinton either (yet he still used it)

[DukeLeto]

irrelevant. Bush already has approval from congress and has earnestly sought approval from the UN and has support from numerous countries. CLinton sought no approval from congress...clinton sought no approval from the UN and unilaterally struck w/o publicly excercising diplomacy with so much as a single ally. Bush has already done all of that, so there really is no comparison. The true cowboy is Clinton.

LIKE IT WAS HARD FOR A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT TO GET APPROVAL FROM A REPUBLICAN CONGREESS?! As if he even had to?!

BTW, back in the 1960's, (Republican) Eisenhower attacked N. Vietnam without getting Congress to declare war. ::)

And "Bush has many nations that support him"? B*llsh*t. THey're probably afraid of getting their *sses bombed if they don't.

FYI:

In February 2001 Bush approved limited air strikes against Iraq in the first military action of his presidency.

That would be, WITHOUT UN OR CONGRESSIONAL CONSULTATION. Dig yourself out of that hole. ;)

BTW, you never answered me: Why do you think Hillary Clinton is corrupt?

[Anathema]

About the title, the disaster wouldn't be world wide anyway. Whatever Clinton did to the USA, he wasn't such a dick as Bush when it came to foreign policy.

Btw, who's her running mate?

[emprworm]

LIKE IT WAS HARD FOR A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT TO GET APPROVAL FROM A REPUBLICAN CONGREESS?! As if he even had to?!

what does that have to do with anything? Congress is congress! So that means that Cowboy Billy can just do what he wants then simply because the politics don't add up to his liking? ROFL! ::) And this is your role model president eh?

"When the politics don't add up, just start bombing things w/o asking"

WOW, Duke! Some president you support.

BTW, back in the 1960's, (Republican) Eisenhower attacked N. Vietnam without getting Congress to declare war. ::)

and? I never said I supported that. I'm talking about BILL CLINTON CARPET BOMBING IRAQ, not eisenhower.

And "Bush has many nations that support him"? B*llsh*t. THey're probably afraid of getting their *sses bombed if they don't.

a stupid lie. that is the dumbest idiocy you have said in a long time. like Spain is afraid of being bombed? LOL! ::) so this is the kind of lunacy that liberals spew when backed into a corner eh? why am i not surprised.

In February 2001 Bush approved limited air strikes against Iraq in the first military action of his presidency.

lol. As said earlier, Iraq has been firing at US & allied planes for 12 years- these skirmishes have been the norm.

he didn't order the carpet bombing of 400 missles and precision bombs now did he? That would be called a war! ::) :P :O

Now, I will ask you again as you have dodged for the umpteenth time:

COMPARISON OF GW BUSH AND BILL CLINTON REGARDING THE CARPET BOMBING OF IRAQ

[TABLE][TR][TD] [/td][td] B CLINTON -[/TD][TD]GW BUSH [/TD][/TR]

[TR][td]Asked Congress?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from Congress?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Asked the UN?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from the UN?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]unknown[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Carpet Bombed Iraq Anyway?[/td][td]YES[/td][td]unknown[/td][/tr]

[/table]

QUESTION: based upon the undisputed empirical facts of Bill Clinton unilaterally carpet blasting Iraq with 400+ bombs and missles in 1998 w/o asking anyones permission and acting without US congressional approval (and killing all those women & children and not even removing Hussein from power! ::) ), who is dealing with Iraq better?

BUSH OR CLINTON?

[DukeLeto]

1. Is it precision missile strikes or carpet bombing? Make up your mind. ::)

Lets try correcting that chart now, shall we?

COMPARISON OF GW BUSH (THE FIRST TIME[2001]) AND BILL CLINTON REGARDING THE BOMBING OF IRAQ

[TABLE][TR][TD] [/td][td] B CLINTON -[/TD][TD]GW BUSH [/TD][/TR]

[TR][td]Asked Congress?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]NO[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from Congress?[/td][td]N/A[/td][td]N/A[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Asked the UN?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]NO[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from the UN?[/td][td]N/A[/td][td]N/A[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Bombed Iraq Anyway?[/td][td]YES[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[/table]

COMPARISON OF GW BUSH (THE SECOND TIME[2003]) AND BILL CLINTON REGARDING THE BOMBING OF IRAQ

[TABLE][TR][TD] [/td][td] B CLINTON -[/TD][TD]GW BUSH [/TD][/TR]

[TR][td]Asked Congress?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from Congress?[/td][td]N/A[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Asked the UN?[/td][td]NO[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Obtained Permission from the UN?[/td][td]N/A[/td][td]NO[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Bombed Iraq Anyway?[/td][td]YES[/td][td]YES[/td][/tr]

[/table]

So, let's ask your question...Who did it right? ::)

My answer: Looks like they did about the same thing to me.

[emprworm]

this is what happens you corner a liberal: SPIN, LIES, DECEIT.

Lets review all your attempts to slime your way out and dodge the question I've asked now 5 times without being answered.

First lets analyze the fact:

in 1998 Bill Clinton launched a massive 4 day blitzkreig campaign against Iraq and Bagdad, blasting them with more than 400 missles and precision bombs. He used more than 30,000 troops, 40 ships, and 300 planes to carry out the attack. Included in the massive bombing was the city of Bagdhad and multiple targets. Clinton did not ask nor obtain permission from congress. he did not seek diplomacy with US allies and did not bring the issue before the United Nations. He acted on his own claiming the reason was because planes were fired upon in the no-fly zone- something quite typical and normal that Iraq has been doing normally for the last 12 years. Justification for all-out war? Of course, while bombing Bagdhad you'd think Clinton would have removed Hussein to prevent the current situation...but no.

George Bush has not yet bombed bagdad and obtained permission from Congress to do so. He has brought the matter before the UN. He has sought diplomacy with allied forces. He has fired upon solitary Iraqi targets in the no fly zone, as normally done in the last 12 years, not only by the US but by other countries as well, which is not the same as launching a war on Iraq and bombing Bagdhad.

Then I ask a simple question: who is a better example for Iraq foreign policy: George W Bush or Clinton?

DukeLeto has been avoiding the question post after post with lies, spin, and excuses. Lets go over them one at a time.

In light of the fact that Billy carpet bombed Iraq with 400 ordinances and more than 30,000 troops- what excuses has Leto been tossing around?

First Duke quotes Bill's biography with multiple cut-and-pastes from the Enclycopedia. Instead of answering the question, he talks about Mexico, Ireland, and the Good Friday agreement. Hardly the question I asked, and having nothing to do with bombing bagdhad. You can read this first dodge here: http://www.dune2k.com/forum/?action=display;board=34;threadid=9031;start=0#msg143501

Next, after I repeat the question, DukeLeto simply says "Bush didn't get UN approval either!" Another dodge. He doesn't talk about Clinton not even asking, let alone getting approval from congress. he makes no mention of Clinton failing in all allied diplmoacy. He does not mention Bush's obtained approval from congress, or Bush's actions of international diplomacy and bringing the matter before the UN. ANd finally, he simply dodges the original question ( i will repeat the question again after this post)

The next excuse Leto brings forth was a false statement: "The Senate HAD to have approved miliary action, or it couldn't be taken". This, of course, is wrong as Leto is getting desperate, he starts spewing misinformation (typical liberal style). ALong with this mis-information, he does not answer the question at all and even offers this statement: "IMO, it is worse to repeatedly ask permission, be denied, and do it anyway than to not ask permission and just do it." As if this means that Bush was denied permission by......who? This spindoctoring statement by Leto - so nicely CLintonesque- conviently leaves out Bush asking permission from Congress and obtaining it. He never asked persmission from the UN, but he brought the matter before the UN. And now Leto is trying to imply that Clinton was better off just bombing Iraq w/o so much as asking a single congressman or raising the matter before a single UN delegate, or bringing into scope a single ally? ::) Did I mention that Leto doged the question in this post too?

The next Leto Dodge was another lie. A typical liberal slant that attempts to distort the truth. He said "LIKE IT WAS HARD FOR A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT TO GET APPROVAL FROM A REPUBLICAN CONGREESS?!" This is an aggregious intellectual offense to anyone with an IQ over 10. This kind of truth-twisting might work in a liberal "think tank" office (liberal think tank=oxymoron), but Leto will not slip such nonsense past me. I appreciate reasonable debate. I do not appreciate deliberate distortions of truth. GW Bush obtained approval for bombing Iraq in November of 2002, well before the republicans took their oaths. The congress at this time was fully and completely majority democrat. A majority democrat house and senate granted Bush the authority to bomb Bagdahd. Oh and did I mention that Leto once again dodged the original question?

And finally, in his latest fiasco, Leto starts comparing Clinton to Bush Sr. I'm not talking about Bush Sr. I'm talking about Bush Jr. Furthermore, he inserts an "N/A" for "permission given by congress" but the truth remains that the answer is still NO. Oh and did I mention that Leto once again dodged the original question?

So what about that question that Leto has been dodging? Well here it is again:

QUESTION: based upon the facts of Bill Clinton unilaterally carpet blasting Iraq with 400+ bombs and missles in 1998 w/o obtaining congressional approval, without bringing the matter before the UN, and without public diplomatic efforts with allied forces, and instead simply acting on his own, who is dealing with Iraq better?

BUSH OR CLINTON?

[Acriku]

Neither, Liebermann :)