Guild Navigators

[Digital Guerrilla]

The Bene Gesserit have their program of birthing a KH. Why had there never been any KHs within the Guild recruits was it because most failed and never became navigators? I have like a general idea but thought others here my have the same thoughts or different conculsions about Guild navigators.

[Vanguard3000]

Perhaps the Navigaters are sterile, or can only mate with other Navigators, being mutants and all.

Or perhaps it's impossible for the BG to acquire Guild rosters, etc. In the later DUne novels they all seem to have the same names (i.e. Edric), perhaps based on rank or specialty, and this makes it impossible for the BG to find any one Nav.

[Inoculator9]

In the end, I think that the Navigator Edric series was probably a project set about to clone the original subject before change. This way they could have a large supply of elite navigators.

[Digital Guerrilla]

After some thought on this subject maybe the Guild had no idea what a KH was anyway. The KH program was a secret I think to everyone else except the Bene Gesserit Sisiterhood. The Guild had no idea what agency had taken control of the "higher order dimensions" when it was Maud'dib himself taking control of the spice source. The Guild navgaitors could not take control without causing a nexus because they were inept in dealing with "higher order power".

[Digital Guerrilla]

I could have overlooked this but were there any female navigators?

[Vanguard3000]

I don't see why not.

[Acriku]

My theory is that the loads of spice-intake required for guild travel, causes sterility. Also, the loads of spice mutate the body to beyond any difference between a once-female and a once-male.

[Digital Guerrilla]

Maud'dib or Leto II could have been great Guild navigators do any of you agree or disagree? Leto II would have been the better of two I think. He had more focus of his visions.

[Dante]

The Kwisatz Haderach required genetic manipulation, not just vast ammounts of spice. Navigators aren't specially bred for centuries.

[TMA_1]

Well this is my opinion

Remember that paul already had prescient abilities before he took the water of life. The essence amplified his powers through his own will and he became more than just a genetically superior human. Navigators are picked from their genetics as well, but tend to be picked based on if they could take the amount of spice given to them. They are slowly mutated into navigators that have the ability to see partially into the future. Navigators in my opinion cannot breed like acriku said, but they are able to live an extremely long time. This is another reason why I think Shui Hulud lives so long as well. The amount of spice intake literally makes an organic being immune to the dangers of the universe. The navigators basically have a quick way for prescience where paul already had the slight ability. The willpower of changing the water of life and its effects on him just made him all the more powerful.

[Vanguard3000]

Agreed. Regular dosages of Spice triple a lifespan. Imagine how long one would live if they breathed the drug.

[Alexander_Ordos]

The KH must have a special basic genetical code and the BG's knew which, so they've started their breeding program. But this opens a new questions - why didn't they use help of the Tleilaxu?

And the Navigators are only partiantly prescient, they can see places in the universe but not upcoming events and the destinys ot the others. Mua'Dib and Leto II could control their visions, they could see the places in the time stream of their own choice, while the Navigators can't even think normaly, like D'muur from the prequels. So, in fact, Navigator CAN'T become a KH :-

[Vanguard3000]

If they had employed the Tleilaxu, then they would want a piece of the pie, so to speak. Either that, or they could save the cells and eventually create their own KH with the genetic material.

[Dante]

Exactly. Can you imagine a Kwisatz Haderach loyal to the Tleilaxu? If Leto II or Paul had been working for them? *shudders*

[Vanguard3000]

(*Messiah spoiler*)

[hide]Remember that they almost did have a KH, but it would rather have destroyed itself than become antithesis to the status quo.[/hide]

[Alexander_Ordos]

You see considering that the BG and the Tleilaxu have become the best allies in Chapter House, the help of the Tleilaxu might've been possible 8)

[Vanguard3000]

You see considering that the BG and the Tleilaxu have become the best allies in Chapter House, the help of the Tleilaxu might've been possible 8)

Two things (spoilers from Heretics and Chapterhouse):[hide]

1: They were allied in Heretics. The Tlailaxu were gone in Chapterhouse. Only Scytale (and his capsule) remained.

2: In Heretics, the BG and Tlailaxu were allies out of necessity, not out of love for one another. They were by far not the "best allies".[/hide]

[Alexander_Ordos]

You are right Tleilaxu really couldn't be trusted, surely not in the times of Imperium's glory and yes, actualy the BG's kept last Tleilaxu alive out of need, not knowing what the HM's could set against them at the very next moment, they needed his knowledge... :-