need info about BJ weapons

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I need some info about the weapons used by both humans and robots during the Butlerian Jihad.

any info will be greatly apreciated.

did they use lasers or only bulletts and rockets?

[Vanguard3000]

I think they just used ballistic weapons (i.e. bullets). Also, those soldiers on Harmonthep (or wherever Holtzman was) used guns that fired little crystal shards.

Remember that Holtzman's defensive shield hadn't been invented yet, so guns weren't obsolete. Lasers I don't think were used, or at least not practical beyond the use as a stationary or ship-mounted defence. Holtzman uses one that was mounted on a ship during one of his tests.

[Inoculator9]

Lasers were used actually, if you recall I think during Holtzman's first test of the shield a laser detonated the field.

[Vanguard3000]

Yeah, but wasn't it mounted on their little ship?

[edit] Oh, and there're also all those weapons the Cymeks had. Things like poison gas canisters, napalm ("gel") guns, etc.

[Inoculator9]

No, I'm fairly certain it was a hand held weapon.

[Vanguard3000]

But they were in space, near an asteroid, weren't they?

Unless maybe they had their goggles on. That would protect them from the toxic space gas. ::)

[Inoculator9]

Hmmmm... I must be thinking of the other incident at Holtzman's place on Harmenthotep then... Good call Vanguard, you're right.

[Vanguard3000]

Maybe you were thinking of that wierd heat ray that failed miserably. Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about. That's a dilly of a pickle...

[Inoculator9]

No, you were correct.

[Vanguard3000]

Maybe. You could still be right though. They may have had Lasgund and never mentioned it. It just seem to me like they would have used them against the Cymeks if they had them.

[Inoculator9]

Oh, I see what you mean then. But, what circumstances and areas of the book that went into detail had time or opportunity to lazguns? So if they did have them they may have not used them particularly often because the opportunity just never came up. But still, I think you are right.

[Vanguard3000]

Well, even if they were only larger ship-mounted things or whatever, you'd think there'd be lasgun batteries on Geidi Prime or SS mounted on buildings or something. Maybe the lasguns only work in space, fairly far from any stars, due to frequent overheating? Or maybe they're still in such an experimental state that their only use is for scientific purposes.

[Inoculator9]

Perhaps they aren't used on planets because they can't penetrated the defensive shields used on most planets. I'm not sure about whether lazguns can be fired from inside a shield though.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I think that bulletts and explosives would be better to fight under the atmosphere of planets, but without lasers how would space wars be fought?

[Vanguard3000]

Missiles, I guess.

Lasguns would be an amazing weapon at this time, considering there were no shields (except the planetary disruption grid. As Inoc said, I don't know how that would affect a lasgun beam. My bet is that it didn't do much, otherwise they would have found out about this whole exploding thing before they made the Defensive Shield). A lasgun could cut even cymeks to ribbons in no time.

[Dunenewt]

In the BJ the only lasers were bulkl big space ones

[Inoculator9]

The defensive shields are electromagnetic and destroyed cymek brains, I think the lazgun might have disipated the electromagnetic particles in certain areas and caused a security risk if they were used in tandum.

[Vanguard3000]

In the BJ the only lasers were bulkl big space ones

True. And they may have refitted the League Armada's ballistae to have non-laser weapons or something.

Inoc: Yeah, I can believe that they just disperse into harmless light. But I highly doubt any violent reaction would occur like when it hits a Defensive Shield.

[NHJ BV]

IIRC, in BJ it was said that lasers were highly inefficient due to the huge amounts of energy it needed.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

what does IIRC mean?

[Vanguard3000]

IIRC = "If I recall correctly."

[Emperor Harkonnen]

okey. but what i need the info for is a new dune level I am making for Empire Earth. But I just think I'll use lasers even though they weren't much used during bj, the alternative in that game would be marines from WW2, and Abrams tanks.

[ilexatrei]

During Bulterian Jihad, didn't they state that Lasers were obsolete? And that the machines would never expect them to be used against the shields when they are fully operational. Making the shields unstoppable against them ???

[Emperor Harkonnen]

nope the thinking machines didn't have shields because it was Tio who invented them

[Emperor Harkonnen]

IIRC, in BJ it was said that lasers were highly inefficient due to the huge amounts of energy it needed.

yeah I just read that part yesterday. that was probably the reason. but why do they use them 10000 years later then?