Colombia going through civil war

[zamboe]

Finally I have some time to answer this post.

This is an open answer to emprworm, probabaly most of you won't find this interesting, so just don't read it. ;)

First of all I'd like to thank to quondam72 and Sandwraith for their comments, those posts really represent my opinion 100%.

I was not the only one who noticed the racism, sterotypical discrimination and ignorance in emprworm's remarks.

To begin with, this has nothing to do with my particular name (Miguel), my reaction would have been EXACTLY the same if you would have used anyother name, not to mention that for those others who also answered it would have been the same eithe, since their reaction was posted before I mentioned it was my name.

Let me quote, other ppl comments :

"by saying "Miguel" and not "these terrorist" in comparision to Islamic terrorist gives it a sort of ethnic bias. Yes there maybe someone called "Miguel" but it sounds racist against those of Latino descent."

"why not just say "Arabic", "Irish", "Columbian", "Russian" "North American" or whatever the ethnic background these terrorist. I myself would not take immediate offensive to what you said but I understand how it could be preceived in that manner."

" "Columbian going through Civil war" thread you said "Miguel" when it could have been better just to say "Columbian terrorist" it had nothing to do with being politically correct but with tact. Here lies the main problem with some people and political correctness they have a problem with being intelligent. "

"You have lost a sense of credit and respect. Respect is important when entertaining an audience and you offended part of the audience by giving the terrorist a name your pointing your finger at all of them (sort of in certain ways) and not at the terrorist."

It was not only me who understood it in that way. Actually you said that.

About what you said :

"Funny how you guys were quick to "stereotype" the name Miguel as being someone latino. Ha!! Thats funny. Maybe "Miguel" is someone from Northern Mongolia. Hey, he could be a tribal guy out in the middle of Indonesia. Can you see how rediculous political correctness can be when taken too far? The only apology I offer is if Miguel is not a common name to Columbia. If it is not, I apologize. "

What is funny is your ignorance. You don't know where Miguel comes from and you still use it. You write things you have no idea about it's origin. Miguel is a hebrew name. Mostly used in Spain and Portugal too.

Second, the thread were about guerrillas in Colombia, FYI, guerrillas in Colombia are mixed with terrorists groups like IRA and ETA, they have proved links and people of those different nationalities are together in Colombia's jungle, but of course when you think about them you don't think about names like Joseph, George, Arthur and so (when there is a chance those names are among the FARC), that's racism in it's purest form.

The correct term is "colombian terrorist" you can never go wrong with it. Where is the political correctness in the words "colombian terrorist" ?. When you say ANY particular name you offend many people based on their origin.

You are trying to divert the atention with a lame excuse as political correctness. Not to be political correct does not mean a free ticket to be unrespecfull to insult and to express your deep down discriminatory beliefs.

This is not about being or not being potical correct, this is about being assertive, and you are not that kind.

"quandom, there are thousands of latino names. how in the world could I have possibly imagined that I would have chosen Zamboe's real name? It was a freak accident."

You don't get it, do you ?. The issue is not that it was exactly my name, the reactions (including my own) would have been exactly the same if you would have used any other name like Jorge, Arturo, Manuel, Pedro, etc.

Want to know something ?, there has not been opposition only in this thread about your xtreme remarks, but also I've received IM of others, giving me their support for those xtreme remarks you said, that FYI that many others felt and understood what you actually meant with your remarks.

[emprworm]

"guerrillas in Colombia are mixed with terrorists groups like IRA and ETA, they have proved links and people of those different nationalities are together in Colombia's jungle, but of course when you think about them you don't think about names like Joseph, George, Arthur and so (when there is a chance those names are among the FARC), that's racism in it's purest form. "

well sure, there COULD be a Palestinian suicide bomber named "Harry Smith".....sure, it IS possible! After all, there are white caucasions that hate Jews also. And I'm not so overly sensitive that I'm going to get all angry if someone gives a hypothetical name to a member of the Russian mob as "Vladimir". I would seriously wonder what kind of crack he was smoking if he gave the name "Yasmine".

"The correct term is "colombian terrorist" you can never go wrong with it."

And in a hypothetical situation, I'm going to give the person a name. If you are too sensitive to face the anthropolical and statistical fact that certain types of names are common to certain regions of the world...well.......it's about time you toughen up. In my hypothetical statement, I said that "Miguel bombs a building". Its funny that you got angry over the Miguel part, but not about the "bombing a building part." Do you relize that the part about "bombing a building" was hypothetical as well? Yea, it was all fictitous. It would not sound very realistic to say "Do`an Vie^n Truong, a FARC leader". I mean, c'mon! LOL

" Where is the political correctness in the words "colombian terrorist" ?. When you say ANY particular name you offend many people based on their origin."

That is their problem. Not mine. People get offended simply because I breathe oxygen. I'm not about to pander to everyone's hypsersensitivity.

"You are trying to divert the atention with a lame excuse as political correctness"

that is exactly what it is. This is about someone being hypsersensitive to the statistical fact that it is very highly likely that the majority of FARC members have names common to COlumbia. I really don't care about the origin of the name. Most columbians are European descent anyway. I said "names common to Columbia". This is completely irrelevant to any of those names having Hebrew origins. For all I know the name "Ningeogapik" is Hebrew in Origin as well. That doesn't mean it's common to Columbia. (it is common to another region of the world, however)

"Not to be political correct does not mean a free ticket to be unrespecfull to insult and to express your deep down discriminatory beliefs."

LOL! I do not sacrifice intelligence for political correctness. I do not lay waste reason to appease someone's hypersensitivity. I will not say "Ahamed Mahmood Aljabari the white caucasion terrorist". That is an insult to reason. Sure, it there may indeed be white caucasions with the name "Ahamed Mahmood Aljabari" but I will assume, both now and forever, that someone with the name Ahamed Mahmood Aljabari is arabic. Period. And you know what? I will be right most of the time. That is what we call "reason". Reason means that you not necessarily know with 100% certainty...you simply know with accurate predictability. Have you ever considered how intelligence agencies like the CIA think? You really think they find it logical to search 70 year old women at airports after 9/11? Of course not. Its hypersensitive political correct pandering that did it because its so unfair to search 20-30 year old arab men and not search a 70 year old dutch lady. Keep this in mind: I got your name right. Think in terms of pure mathematical odds. What would my odds have been had I guessed a Vietnamese name?

I make this empirical claim here and now: The name "Pedro" is more common in Columbia than the name Takuya. And Takuya was one of the top 20 most common names in another part of the world in 1996. If I were to randomly choose a columbian male off the street and guess "PEDRO", and repeat the process 1000 times, I will be mathematically more likely to come up with matches than I would if I guessed "TAKUYA" 1000 times. You don't like this statistical mathematical fact? Does this statistical mathematical fact make you angry? Is this statistical mathematical fact racist? Well once we start calling statistical mathematical facts as racists, then what does that say about the level of insane political correctness that has superceded logic and reason in this world? I will make no apologies for this statistical mathematical fact.

"Want to know something ?, there has not been opposition only in this thread about your xtreme remarks, but also I've received IM of others, giving me their support for those xtreme remarks you said, that FYI that many others felt and understood what you actually meant with your remarks."

That's fine. Most of the people in here were raised in a "politically correct" school pumping "politically correct" philosophy into their heads while watching "politically correct" media.

I am not politically correct, and I make no apologies for being such.

[nampigai]

After all, there are white caucasions that hate Jews also-

I don't think that the palestinian hates jews in general, I just think that their situation is hopeless. We now again see how Israelli forces roll into Gaza and all that the palestinians have to defend themselves with is rocks and sticks. But if someone say anything bad about Israel he's an antisemitist, I'm sorry but I don't see it that way.

*note: I do not support the suicede bombers.

[quoudam72]

Emprworm is using facts that are unrelated to the core of what we are saying to prove how correct he is clever devil speaking with a forked tongue. Typical lame excuses to continue to insult people for no reason.

[emprworm]

if you feel insulted by this statistical mathematical fact:

The name "Pedro" is more common in Columbia than the name Takuya. And Takuya was one of the top 20 most common names in another part of the world in 1996. If I were to randomly choose a columbian male off the street and guess "PEDRO", and repeat the process 1000 times, I will be mathematically more likely to come up with matches than I would if I guessed "TAKUYA" 1000 times.

then I cannot help you. That is not my problem. I will make no apologies for this statistical mathematical fact.

[Davidu]

It was about time to end the struggle...

I don't want to know how many people died in these 40 years...

They should end this as soon as possible... The wars in Iugoslavia, Cecenia... and all other "new wars" were/are real tragedies. What about such a long war? That is beyond words... it's a wound that needs to close.

[quoudam72]

Encher o saco no one is asking for your help. You need all this statistical mathematical fact to prove that your a vagabundo. I for one do not care about how many people in Columbia who are or who are not named "Miguel" this is not the point. The point was that your statement sounded racist against us and you upheld that assuption by your continued barrage of mathematical, statistical meaningless garbarge.

[emprworm]

Encher o saco no one is asking for your help. You need all this statistical mathematical fact to prove that your a vagabundo. I for one do not care about how many people in Columbia who are or who are not named "Miguel" this is not the point. The point was that your statement sounded racist against us and you upheld that assuption by your continued barrage of mathematical, statistical meaningless garbarge.

well that is my point entirely. When statistcal facts sound "racist" we have a problem. Not with the facts, however.

It is a reasonable certainty that Miguel is more common name in Columbia than Makmud. Sorry, thats just how it is. You're gonna have to deal with it because no matter how politically correct you want to be, the emprical fact will remain: Miguel is more common of a name in Columbia than Makmud.

[quoudam72]

well that is my point entirely. When statistcal facts sound "racist" we have a problem. Not with the facts, however.

I do not have a problem with facts.

It is a reasonable certainty that Miguel is more common name in Columbia than Makmud. Sorry, thats just how it is. You're gonna have to deal with it because no matter how politically correct you want to be, the emprical fact will remain: Miguel is more common of a name in Columbia than Makmud.

Like I posted before it has nothing to do with being politically correct. So I'll agree to disagree.

[zamboe]

"There is no worst blind than those who refuse to see"

Your mathematical garbage has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

We know math also and for that we know that there is no relation between what is the core of this issue and the things you are saying.

I just conclude that you cannot answer to the main point being actually consider, i'll repeat again, the point is :

You being racist, sterotypical discriminator and ignorant.

And now I'll add one more :

You being coward.

For not having enough courage to stand up and defend your beliefs for saying something and inmediately hidding under lame subjects that are not related, avoiding to discuss what we are saying.

Someone remainded to me that this is a very similar situation when you called everybody ignorant, your famous 3 word sentence "civilians are ignorant", when you also tried to divert the atention by explaining things that had nothing to do with it.

I'll conclude repeating something already said about you in this very same thread " you are clever devil speaking with a forked tongue. Typical lame excuses to continue to insult people for no reason. ".

It looks that you are going to close this thread, since you are used to do it when you no longer can support your own position, you just don't have courage enough to do it.

[emprworm]

"I just conclude that you cannot answer to the main point being actually consider, i'll repeat again, the point is :

You being racist, sterotypical discriminator and ignorant.

And now I'll add one more :

You being coward."

Lol! Actually I do have an answer for you- though it might not appeal to your sensitivity to politically correct terminology, however I have statistical facts on my side.

The name "Miguel" is more common in Columbia than the name Takuya. And Takuya was one of the top 20 most common names in another part of the world in 1996. If I were to randomly choose a columbian male off the street and guess "Miguel", and repeat the process 1000 times, I will be mathematically more likely to come up with matches than I would if I guessed "TAKUYA" 1000 times. You don't like this statistical mathematical fact? Does this statistical mathematical fact make you angry? Is this statistical mathematical fact racist? Well once we start calling statistical mathematical facts as racists, then what does that say about the level of insane political correctness that has superceded logic and reason in this world? I will make no apologies for this statistical mathematical fact.

no matter how much you spin it with all your racist accusations and hate-mongering, you will not change the rock-solid, imperical undeniable truth: it is more rational to assume the name "Miguel" in Columbia than the name Takuya.

My only "crime" is that I assumed a regionally accurate name in a fictitional story. If it is racist to assign a regionally, statistically accurate name to a fictional character in a fictional story, as any intelligent author would do, then that shows how utterly stupid society is becoming as it bends its knees to politically correct poison, while sacrificing reason on the altar of hyper-sensitive baseless rubbish.

I tell a story. A fictional story. My story is about the FARC. And in my story there is a FARC member named "Miguel". You don't like my story? Fine. You think I'm a racist because I add a touch of realism to my story? lol. whatever. There are millions of authors that do the same thing in their fictional stories. Go read a Tom Clancy book and see what names he gives to Arab terrorists ::). (hint: they aren't names like "Wong" or "Jimmy" lol. ::) )

this is the most utterly rediculous argument I have had to engage in on this forum (well aside from Leto's).

truly a waste of time. i could be washing my dirty socks. but i wont lock it. in a strange way, i find it amusing listening to you hurl racial accusations and slander at someone just because they write a fictional story and you have a personal problem with the regionally accurate name I assigned to my fictional characters.

lol

[zamboe]

FACTS :

I am not the only one that understood what I say : You are a racist, ignorant, discriminator and coward.

On the contrary you are the only one who actually believe what you say.

Go ahead and read what other adjectives other posters have used to name you in this very same thread.

[emprworm]

FACTS:

I tell a story. A fictional story. My story is about the FARC. And in my story there is a FARC member named "Miguel". You don't like my story? Fine. You think I'm a racist because I add a touch of realism to my story? lol. whatever. There are millions of authors that do the same thing in their fictional stories. Go read a Tom Clancy book and see what names he gives to Arab terrorists . (hint: they aren't names like "Wong" or "Jimmy" lol. )

call it racist all you like. THat makes everyone else who writes fictional stories and gives names to their characters racists too.

::)

[Gobalopper]

Ok guys this is getting way off topic. The topic is columbia not whether emprworm is racist, bigoted, etc. If you can't get back on topic this will be locked.

[emprworm]

my apologies, Gob. Yes indeed, I am in part to blame for this. I am sorry.

I do want this to be about the Columbian crisis, which I am in full hopes that the vile FARC is annihilated...down to the last scumbag.

[quoudam72]

Now that you have your focus back Emprworm let us continue where we left off about the civil war in Columbia. Can that be agreed on just be more tactful in what you say is all that I ask your not dealing with fictional characters we are real people. Ok Emprwrom Clancey.

[OT]

You mentioned FARC you also have to remember that there is also another group AUC (AutoDefesas Unidas de Colombia, United Self-Defence Forces of Columbia) who are supported by the USA and have US mercenaries and military advisors within their ranks. The government and AUC are said to be unofficial allies. AUC from intelligence sources holds the territory in northern Columbia, linking the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. This territory has numerous coca plantations and cocaine factories. You know what is interesting about this subject the fact that everywhere you have drugs you have terrorist and I thought there was a war on drugs. I smell dirty laundry.

[emprworm]

Now that you have your focus back Emprworm let us continue where we left off about the civil war in Columbia. Can that be agreed on just be more tactful in what you say is all that I ask your not dealing with fictional characters we are real people. Ok Emprwrom Clancey.

i routinely use fictional stories when I post, and I see nothing wrong with that. as someone suggested earlier (acriku?) instead of first names only, I'll give them last names as well. and yes, I am trying to get back on track to the columbian civil war. people who don't like my posting style can click: Messages-->Preferences-->Type "emprworm" in the box-->Save Preferences. Now, back to our broadcast.

[quoudam72]

I edited my post while you were posting because it contained no information about the subject just reply to that. I will be talking about the subject from that point till the end of this thread.

[emprworm]

unofficial allies? I'm not too sure what that means.

[quoudam72]

The *AUC avoids all conflicting engagements with government security forces and actions against US personnel or interests. The AUC is supported by economic elites, drug traffickers, and local communities who lack effective government security. AUC claims its primary objective is to protect its sponsors from insurgents (FRAC). The AUC has asserted itself by being adequately equipped and armed as a regional and national counterinsurgent force. The right-wing paramilitary groups's political leader Carlos Castaño has claimed that AUC’s operational costs are financed with drug-related earnings, the rest from donations from its sponsors.

*Do not get A.U.C confused with A.U.V (Autodefensas Unidas por Venezuela, AUV).

[zamboe]

quondam72 mentioned an interesting point.

About AUC, the right-wing extremist guerrilla.

AUC had a background of being supporte by the US. Yes the US supported a non regular military forces, this wouldn't be the first case, also worth to mention are the support to guerillas that was given in Nicaragua in the 80's.

That's why I am not sourprised when the FARC got the support from the IRA and the ETA, those links were confirmed.

I wonder if the US continues to provide resources to the AUC in order to help them fight the left-wing FARC.

[Gobalopper]

Are there any groups that aren't bad in some way that the US could support though?

[NeoDevilbane]

Would you guys learn how to spell "Colombia"??? I know the space shuttle ColUmbia is in the news these days and there's a District of ColUmbia and there's a British ColUmbia, but I'm half Colombian myself and scratch my head at the number of times it's been misspelled in this thread.

- Neo

[ordos45]

Are there any groups that aren't bad in some way that the US could support though?

There is such thing as a non-bad group. Every group or government has their own agenda, and part of that agenda is always bad for someone else.

[emprworm]

Would you guys learn how to spell "Colombia"??? I know the space shuttle ColUmbia is in the news these days and there's a District of ColUmbia and there's a British ColUmbia, but I'm half Colombian myself and scratch my head at the number of times it's been misspelled in this thread.

- Neo

thx for that clarification. i corrected the thread.