Acriku Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 First off, no you didn't because if you did you would have addressed the answer to your first question, and not enhance the question. First question is useless, and a mockery. Bush opinions have nothing to do with religion, and does not serve as an analogy. So shove it. No I did not know it because I never bothered to find out. Speaking to someone and pressing your beliefs on someone are two different things, so again - shove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 I find it interesting that the judgement is being perceived as discrimination against religion, when it was in fact passed to stop discrimination against sexuality - a point which is continually being overlooked. so in order to stop discrimination against one you must discriminate against another. not exactly a cure, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 First off, no you didn't because if you did you would have addressed the answer to your first question, and not enhance the question. First question is useless, and a mockery. Bush opinions have nothing to do with religion, and does not serve as an analogy. So shove it. No I did not know it because I never bothered to find out. Speaking to someone and pressing your beliefs on someone are two different things, so again - shove it.oooh, we are throwing a tantrum now?And you are completely wrong, Acriku. Freedom of religion includes the freedom to believe any religion you want...not just established ones, does it not? Religion of Bush:Ye are commanded to adore President Bush.People that do not like Bush are Heathen. When a heathen tells you to your face that they do not like Bush, you have just been insulted by the evil beings of the universe, and you will lose one year worth of Karma unless you immediately perform the "political cleansing" 24 hour bathing ceremony in the Potomac River, in Washington DC. If you do not live near Washington DC. this is a most unfortunate thing, as the Religion of Bush requires that all Cleansings be done at this location. You have 7 days to take a flight to Washington DC and perform the cleansing or your karma is lost. If you have children, they too will suffer negative Karma. THis is why it is imperative that you cleanse yourself after someone personally insults Bush to your face. You must purify yourself of this kind of anti-Bush hatred. this is my right to believe this religion. It is not your right to tell me I can't believe it. SO when you insult Bush to my face KNOWING that I believe this, you are comiting hate crime...are you not?and I'm not going to shove anything- all I'm doing is attempting to regurgitate the intolerance being shoved down my mouth is all. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Discrimination? If a gay person is refused jobs or treated differently from straight persons you'd have discriminiation. You can't arrest someone from thinking something.I do believe however, that nazi ideology is not to be allowed (specificly, no nazi parties etc). Difference is, one chooses to be christianic and one chooses to be homosexual (though some believe its geneticial), but one does not choose to be jewish (meaning as in etnical), black or white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Religious freedom - ability to believe in what you believe in and worship your God. However, once people start preaching their ways, that is not religious freedom anymore, because it is forcing religion upon someone. Religious freedom is personal. It should not give you the right to recruit followers and create a cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Discrimination? If a gay person is refused jobs or treated differently from straight persons you'd have discriminiation. You can't arrest someone from thinking something. i agree. so long as it is a non-profit organization you cannot refuse a gay person because he is gay (neither should you hire one because he is gay).i do agree totally. gay people have the same rights as anyone else.a private organization, however, (like a Catholic School) should not be forced to admit Buddhists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 argh!! where did that color come from? :O I'm telling you the forum just put it in there on its own!! ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Religious freedom - ability to believe in what you believe in and worship your God. However, once people start preaching their ways, that is not religious freedom anymore, because it is forcing religion upon someone. Religious freedom is personal. It should not give you the right to recruit followers and create a cult.and when you protest against Bush, you are shoving things on me as well. People that believe in the religion of Bush are severely impacted by this hate crime. Bush protests, therefore MUST be illegal as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 SO when you insult Bush to my face KNOWING that I believe this, you are comiting hate crime...are you not?NO, because the person who insulted Bush has the right to believe that as much as the people who praise Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 SO when you insult Bush to my face KNOWING that I believe this, you are comiting hate crime...are you not?NO, because the person who insulted Bush has the right to believe that as much as the people who praise Bush.then how is it a hate crime if someone says "Jesus Saves" to you in a store? You are being very inconsistent here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Yes Emp, but a Budhist could choose to become catholic and thus be allowed in a Catholic school. But jews, in Nazi Germany, couldn't choose to become arians and thus get the same rights as others.DA, if you say that people shouldn't be allowed to preach, that would be cutting into the right of speech, wouldn't you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 "oooh, we are throwing a tantrum now?"You sound like a 5-year old child. Try not to...Note the difference between lack of the right to do something and prohibition of it."I find it interesting that the judgement is being perceived as discrimination against religion"Read my words again. I did not stick in perceived for the practice of typing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 and when you protest against Bush, you are shoving things on me as well. People that believe in the religion of Bush are severely impacted by this hate crime. Bush protests, therefore MUST be illegal as well. No, because Bush is not a religion and is not a God. He is part of the government and the government is made to server the people. The citizens have the right to criticize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Yes Emp, but a Budhist could choose to become catholic and thus be allowed in a Catholic school. But jews, in Nazi Germany, couldn't choose to become arians and thus get the same rights as others.DA, if you say that people shouldn't be allowed to preach, that would be cutting into the right of speech, wouldn't you say?i see this point, earthnuker. BUt what about a womens group? Say a "Feminist Club for Women". What is inherently wrong with that? So long as its not a public company, I see no problem with this at all. And in your example of Jews, remember that there was great criminal conduct going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 then how is it a hate crime if someone says "Jesus Saves" to you in a store? You are being very inconsistent here.I never said it was. Not in those small proportions. And anyways, like I said, Bush has nothing to do with religion and therefore is not a good example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 and when you protest against Bush, you are shoving things on me as well. People that believe in the religion of Bush are severely impacted by this hate crime. Bush protests, therefore MUST be illegal as well. No, because Bush is not a religion and is not a God. He is part of the government and the government is made to server the people. The citizens have the right to criticize it.*sigh* must I repeat myself? I already told you that there IS a religion of Bush. It already exists. Religion of Bush:Ye are commanded to adore President Bush.People that do not like Bush are Heathen. When a heathen tells you to your face (in person) that they do not like Bush, you have just been insulted by the evil beings of the universe, and you will lose one year worth of Karma unless you immediately perform the "political cleansing" 24 hour bathing ceremony in the Potomac River, in Washington DC. If you do not live near Washington DC. this is a most unfortunate thing, as the Religion of Bush requires that all Cleansings be done at this location. You have 7 days to take a flight to Washington DC and perform the cleansing or your karma is lost. If you have children, they too will suffer negative Karma. THis is why it is imperative that you cleanse yourself after someone personally insults Bush to your face. You must purify yourself of this kind of anti-Bush hatred. Or are you now going to "dictate" what someone can believe? Is it your "dictation" that tells me now whether or not I can believe this? Do I need your permission? If someone believes this...IT *IS* THEIR RELIGION.now, what about those hate crimes again? If preaching Buddha or Jesus is a hate crime, so is Bush protesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Gender based groups would be one thing I wouldn't equate to the KKK. If you're refused in one of those, you can rest assured that so is 50 % of the worlds population :)I don't quite understand where you're going with the crime thing. Are you suggesting that jews commited more crimes then others in Germany? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 then how is it a hate crime if someone says "Jesus Saves" to you in a store? You are being very inconsistent here.I never said it was. Not in those small proportions. And anyways, like I said, Bush has nothing to do with religion and therefore is not a good example.so now we are making "proportions?" Just what exactly would constitute an "Illegal proportion?" "Follow BUddha or you will not be enlightened." Is that now a hate crime? I don't believe in Buddha and many people would be disturbed by that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 GOVERNMENT cannot be a religion. Goverment is made to serve the people, which is the opposite of religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 It should be, anyway :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Gender based groups would be one thing I wouldn't equate to the KKK. If you're refused in one of those, you can rest assured that so is 50 % of the worlds population :)I don't quite understand where you're going with the crime thing. Are you suggesting that jews commited more crimes then others in Germany?no i was suggesting that the exclusive group you mentioned...the Nazi's...were comitting crime so it is a bad example of an exclusionary group. I am referring to exclusionary groups that do not commit crime (like "Hollanders for European Renaissance". I just see no problem with it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 so now we are making "proportions?" Just what exactly would constitute an "Illegal proportion?" "Follow BUddha or you will not be enlightened." Is that now a hate crime? I don't believe in Buddha and many people would be disturbed by that statement.Anything that sets one religion as the right one and all the others as wrong should be an illegal statement. Yes your Buddha statement would fall under that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 GOVERNMENT cannot be a religion. Goverment is made to serve the people, which is the opposite of religion. lol! Of course it can. You can make anything into a religion that you want too. That is rediculous. Ever hear of the Dali Llama? Case rested.who are YOU to tell someone what they can/cant worship. DId you know there is a Church of Kobain? Yea. THey are in portland oregon and they worship Kurt Kobain of the rock band Nirvanna. If they wanted to worship George Bush and sing songs to Bush every SUnday and write a bible on acceptable Bush worship....WHO ARE YOU to deny them that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Er, I know of no such group. But people can move here and adapt to Dutch habits and learn our language, and if they do they would probably be accepted, otherwise I would be against it. A Russian in such a club would indeed be an odd sight :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I DO NOT CONSIDER IT A RELIGION. I don't give a crap that anyone else does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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