emprworm Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 What is not mentioned much in the anals of history is the sheer brutality of Soviet soldiers during the invasion of Germany. Part of an interesting article from the Institute for Historical Review."Unpunished Crimes, Aggressive PlansFrom the onset of the war, German soldiers unfortunate enough to be taken prisoner were often mutilated and murdered. When the Soviet forces entered Germany, men and boys were murdered or drafted for forced labor; the women were often raped, sometimes murdered, and, if strong enough, dragooned for forced labor.Although by about 1950 Stalin decided to lessen the influence of Jews in the Communist Party, Jews were very much involved in murderous assignments during the war. In addition to Mekhlis, there was Lazar Kaganovich, responsible for the deaths of millions; General Abakumov, who headed the NKVD/MVD (Ministry of Internal Affairs, or secret police), and Generals Reichman and Chernyakhovski, who were especially ruthless. Hoffmann hastens to add that the criminal actions of individual Jews should no more reflect on the Jewish people as a whole than the criminal actions of individual Nazis on the German people. Yet Nazis charged with war crimes have been, and continue to be, tried and punished, while, curiously, no courts appear to be interested in bringing Communist criminals to justice."http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n6p59_Michaels.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostHunter Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I already knew this, and the Soviets had EVERY right. The Germans did HORRIBLE things to the Soviet Union in WWI and WWII, though it may not be morally right its the rule of war and the Soviets had their revenge, the Germans were not exackly perfect either. Empr, remember this was war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 german women and children? They raped, sodomized and brutally beat children. they spared none. this is in sharp contrast, btw, to the US and Britain who did nothing of the sort on that kind of grand scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostHunter Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Empr you must remember the war Russia and Germany were fighting was way different then what the other Allies were doing. Village to village, kill all, destroy the moral, let nothing stand, this was Total War, civilians mattered nothing to either side Empr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 There were no rules in WWII. None that were obeyed anyways. You can't blame the russian soldiers for not obeying some "morals" when they have just saw the same happen to their wives and children. The Germans got what they deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 well i dont agree with total war. killing the German military was all that was necessary. barbaric crimes are not justified, no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sadukar Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 they spared none. neither did the nazis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Total war is effective, but morally wrong. Total war for example was in the Civil War, where Sherman raped and pillaged the Georgian state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 i hate total war. effective in killing everyone, sure, but also effective into making a human being into an animal. the masses of soldiers in the soviet army that did this were not honorable, they were 2 legged beasts seeking german blood, caring not about moral reason, only about bloodlust and revenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 You could argue that under the circumstances they were led to that point, by the sheer hatred for the Nazis and consequently the germans, and by the bad effects of war, where the more you are living the war, the more the war lives you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 i suppose you could argue that point.but soldiers "plundering" women and children no matter what they "went through" are comitting grievous acts far beyond the boundaries of necessary war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rhetoric Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Empr,Just don't say,'Russia',kay?(My mom is Russian) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Since any war in itself is inhumane, you cannot set boundaries to it. It is like saying in a law that you can kill men, just not women and children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Perhaps the leaders of the men thought the ends be justified by the means, in which case would be the plundering of women and children, but then again i don't know, and without reports from the leaders themselves we can't know why exactly they did it. But I hope you researched this to a degree, because sometimes history is exaggerated or downright wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Empr,Just don't say,'Russia',kay?(My mom is Russian)Lol, I'm russian. I'm not offended though, cause I understand the actions of the Soviet Army. It might have been immoral and animalistic, but that is what war is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 Empr,Just don't say,'Russia',kay?(My mom is Russian)uhhh....where in my UNEDITED posts do I say Russia? Please point that out, kay? I do see Devil's Advocate saying "You can't blame the russian soldiers for not obeying some "morals""Maybe you meant to talk to him?Next time please read my posts more carefully before asking me to not say something, kay?Lol, I'm russian. I'm not offended though, cause I understand the actions of the Soviet Army. It might have been immoral and animalistic, but that is what war is.Well I'm glad you aren't offended because I don't know who exactly in this thread said "Russian" except for Mad Rhetoric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 dude, every war involves evils. You also seem to forget who attacked who. Russia signed a treaty with germany, and they attacked em. They were fighting for their lives, you can see why they wouldnt like the germans. You also fail to point out all the horrible things america did. We failed to take jews into our harbors because of antisemitism, we took many people of japanese decent and placed them in internment camps just because of their racial origins. We used many kinds of weapons to carpet bomb entire german and japanese towns full of civilians. good grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 My point is - there were russian. The majority at least. It's just political correctness not to call them russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 We used many kinds of weapons to carpet bomb entire german and japanese towns full of civilians. Like Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Actually let's not get into a debate on the atomic bombs, whether they were aimed at military sites, and we didn't know the power of such a bomb, or they were aimed at civilian sites and we knew all along, and so on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Ah, but we are getting into war crimes, aren't we? I would say that is a big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Well more specifically the war crimes on the german people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Those were nothing compared to the war crimes of the german people themselves and everyone knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Of the nazis, it would be wise to associate that specificity rather than the generalization of the germans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rhetoric Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Empr,Just don't say,'Russia',kay?(My mom is Russian)uhhh....where in my UNEDITED posts do I say Russia? Please point that out, kay? I do see Devil's Advocate saying "You can't blame the russian soldiers for not obeying some "morals""Maybe you meant to talk to him?Next time please read my posts more carefully before asking me to not say something, kay?Lol, I'm russian. I'm not offended though, cause I understand the actions of the Soviet Army. It might have been immoral and animalistic, but that is what war is.Well I'm glad you aren't offended because I don't know who exactly in this thread said "Russian" except for Mad RhetoricI just mean,don't say 'Russia' in the future of this thread.IE,The RUSSIANS shouldn't have done all that immoral stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.