Monothiesm and the Great Greek Thinkers

[emprworm]

interesting, TMA. I never knew that. It makes sense though. From a pure logical standpoint, you would really have to lack some serious rational abilities to honestly subscribe to the greek deities.

i wonder if that is why Alexander the Great had such great respect for the Jews and their monotheism.

[TMA_1]

yup, josephus talks about Alexander sacrificing animals to God, giving the priests monies and goods. The priests even showed alexander his prophesies. Pretty interesting stuff. Also Alexander loved the hebrew auxillary solders. They were famous for their capabilities in battle.

[Caid Ivik]

Am I a polytheist? No. But being a polytheist has no connection with wisdom, as Caid so boldly claims. That is why I detest it, and it shows Caid's bigotry.

Why you use "detest" instead of "hate", I need a dictionary to reply you ;D Also, as I think my religion is true, I think polytheism isn't. To accept it I must be in New Age or such thing, but christianity allows ONE GOD. Many wise people found it too, but that doesn't mean if you believe in Thor, Odin and Loki you are dumb, or what you are trying to say. Possibly you don't know enough about it or you don't want to accept it. Also, I don't seek such facts as existence of one God, but development of perceiving laws of morale, good and order. And many greek philosophers found it very closely to christian system, mostly Platon, altough even Socrates gave much ("I know that I know nothing" - christianic lowliness? ::) ).

[Acriku]

This isn't meant for a reply, but the God you believe in is called Elohim, plural for gods, in the bible. There is also one, or more, verse that is translated using "Let us create so and so and such" anyways you get my point.

Well caid I guess it would have been a language barrier because the way you said it meant anybody who is polytheist cannot be wise.

[emprworm]

oh yes, acriku, you are referring to triuine monotheism.

[nemafakei]

Plurals for singular nouns in ancient languages tend to elevate the status of the noun in question, that is all; ideas of trinity, as I recall did not surface until a few centuries AD, in Ireland being the first recorded instance. Our only remnant of this archaic plurality device is the 'royal "we"'.

[emprworm]

and understanding of atomic theory didn't come along until the 20th century. that didn't mean that it still wasn't true during the times of ancient man.

[Acriku]

Misleading nonetheless :) For those who are of not yet scholar-level of these kind of things.

[emprworm]

misleading only to those who seek not to understand.

[Acriku]

So if I seek to understand I suddenly have the ability to understand it? Or cannot fathom an understanding, but seek it in the library I understand it all of a sudden? ::) Nice try on the philosophy, sorry it didn't work out for ya.

[Caid Ivik]

This isn't meant for a reply, but the God you believe in is called Elohim, plural for gods, in the bible. There is also one, or more, verse that is translated using "Let us create so and so and such" anyways you get my point.

Well caid I guess it would have been a language barrier because the way you said it meant anybody who is polytheist cannot be wise.

God is called JHWH, because Jews don't write a,e,i,o,u,y (read as Jehova or Jahve). Some books use 'El-Ohim, but in meaning "graceful God". Also there are other words, 'El-Shadday (powerful God) or Adonai (honorable), but all means one only God. But monotheism is more natural. Instead of japanese shinto, all polytheistic cults have (or had) one "god of the gods". For my believe, this would explain it all.

"I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

- Ex 20,3-5

[Edric O]

Elohim is the "title" of God (= the LORD). YHWH is His name, but this name was considered so holy that the Hebrews used the title of Elohim (among others) instead, out of respect.

[Caid Ivik]

JHWH means "that one who IS". That means our God is and other are just our fictions.

[TMA_1]

hey nema I just wanted to let you and other people know that there are no "royal we's" as you put it in ancient hebrew. That was just an idea that scribes and monks thought of to solve the riddle of the elohim. Ancient hebrew never used the plural "we" for a single thing or individual to ascribe greatness or glory. You should at least study hebrew before picking it out like that. you may understand some ancient languages but I remember you saying that you only know ancient greek, which is much different than any african/middle eastern language. Also the idea of a trinity has been around atleast to the time before the catholic church. The Nestorian sect were the first to document it.

[nemafakei]

Thankyou, TMA. That is indeed an interesting fact.

So is an eloh (I think sing of elohim, just a guess) a lord?

[Caid Ivik]

"Eloh" means nothing. I don't know where have you found that nonsense about "elohim" means "gods". We believe in Holy Trinity, three forms in one God - Father, Jesus and Spirit, but they are same being, i.e.like Borg.

[TMA_1]

Eloha (sounds like El-O-ah) is singular. It is translated to God. Elohim is the plural way of saying it (Gods). It is quite strange for academics and often it is just thrown aside or thought of as a mistake.

[Caid Ivik]

According to every priest I was asking about this, Elohim means "graceful lord". Like you were saying that Mephisto and Hephaisto are same persons, just because there is only little letter difference.

[Inoculator9]

I'm inclined to agree with TMA on that one.

[Sneakgab]

More amusing qoutes...

qoute from Caid Avik

''God was I think waiting until we humans will find him. Then he sent Jesus, when we were fully prepared to accept him. Everyone knows that most of greek philosophers where monoteists or at least watching for "real god". Such wise men can't be polytheists.

Acriku-

Landsraad

Member #235

Qoute from Acriku:

I detest that claim Caid.

"Religion is such an enemy to the intellect, it must be hell to be a Christian with a high school diploma." ...MrReindeer

Teach a human religion and they will have all the answers. Teach a human how to think and they will never stop questioning.

Take note of Acriku's signature and laugh at his unwitting hypocrism... (I know I'm being offensive, but that's not the purpose of my post... ah well... at least I didn't say something clearly meaningless such as ''no offence intended''

[Acriku]

I just found those amusing, my life doesn't abide by them :)

[Caid Ivik]

"Religion is such an enemy to the intellect, it must be hell to be a Christian with a high school diploma." - that can say only a dumb DEER ;D Every head of Church is educated on high school.

[Acriku]

That can say only a dumb deer? Huh?

It was a joke, not a claim, sheesh.

[TMA_1]

hehe, acriku is doing a "goth" techneque. He wants to piss people off by his statements.lol

I find em kinda funny, ignorance is a very good dark humor.

[Edric O]

LOL, looks like Acriku is the only one who finds that sig funny after all. :)