DUNE Tribes Game

[Tezcatlipoca]

I explored the option a while ago and had to abandon it.

I had started out making a T2 version (with many changes) of another mod I made for Tribes one. However, I never saw any point to doing non-tribes-universe based mods in T2, without doing a total conversion; the shapes and environment were too specific to the Tribes universe to do much else. Either way, I had a small group working on a mod, and after (once we had gotten enough practice with the first mod) I was going to move on and do a Dune TC in Tribes2. However, as it turned out, all modeling resources for Tribes2 mods had appeared to.. evaporate. I.e. anyone that knew how to do it, had disappeared. I had one person working on it, but he eventually abandoned us and so we moved on to other projects. So.. unfortunately, unless and until we had someone with experience getting models into the game, we can't do much.

But that's ok; the mod for T1 is quite enjoyable ;)

[Falconius]

I had a look on www.garagegames.com and found the software and tutorials needed to mod tribes2. From what i've seen it seems easiest to create what is called a "map mod". I've got a good example called DuneSea. Too big to attach. Please let me know what you think.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Creating mods for T2 is fairly easy. I'm not sure what a "Map Mod" is, unless it's simply a new map with specific scripts imbedded in it to add new map specific features, which again, is fairly straight forward.

The problem is importing new models for use in the program, and knowing what has to be done, and what format to have them in to do so. As I recall from when we looked, there is a lot of information for doing it with the general Torque engine, but this isn't the same as doing it for Tribes2, for which there really isn't much info. As mentioned, we managed to get pretty close, and had the info needed to get it in, but we were missing a critical 3dStudioMax plugin that was needed to create muti-resolution models that the game requires.

[Falconius]

Sorry, i was a bit unclear. In the map i'm speaking of there are 3 custom weapons -> one of which the map creator didn't get around to skinning. i had a look at the .vl2 file (using winzip) and found the shape files (assaultrifleshape.dts ect.). i downloaded a util that converts lightwave obj files to dts files from garagegames. i will check out the procedure of importing new vehicles into the game. But i assume it will be tricky, otherwise there would have been more mods like that herc mod.

[Tezcatlipoca]

*nod* there's a lot that goes into a vehicle. Weapons arn't too bad; basic shape, a few animated parts if you want to get fancy, and a muzzle transform point.

Vehicle however have a lot of moving parts, mount point, weapon point, ect.

If you can get full (decent looking) shapes in from lightwave (never used that one as I believe they wanted me to buy it...) Then let me know and I'll see if we can't dig up time and a few more for a team to do a T2 version :)

[Falconius]

i hope you'll forgive me but i'm out of action untill the 15th December due to exams and work. Hate it when i don't have time for important stuff like Dune mods :'(

Here is what i was able to piece together so far:

-use Anim8or (free 3D util) to create the .obj file

-use Obj2Dts_v.1 (free on garagegames.com) to create a dts model for shapes folder in T2

Attached is a short tutorial i've found on the subject.

Also i add a rendering of my first dts vehicle that i'll be working on.

It is loosly based on the old 1992 great game..

[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

[Tezcatlipoca]

Well, like I said; show me you can get it into T2, and I'm in. but before you go making masses of models we'll have to discuss game design and specification ;) (I'm pretty strict on such things)

[Falconius]

i've made a few models already before you answered, sigh.. Big exam tommorow.

In terms of design: i'd be looking at a very basic Dune2 based team oriented FPS. But i would like to retain many of the Tribes2 game play naunces. The final MOD should ideally be as simple, straight forward, basic and uncomplicated as possible. i've always been a great fan of siege games, but for the sake of simplicity i'll first do CTF. What did you have in mind though?

[tag]

Falconius,

I would reccomend you try out the Tribes I mod that Tez put together first.  That will give you a good idea of the direction he would tend towards in a Tribes II mod.  In short, it would be based more on the characteristics of the novels than any of the games, involving a heavy focus on infantry melee combat and shield restrictions.

If you like, you can set a date and time and I would be happy to try to meet you on the game server and show you around.

--Bashar

[Falconius]

I will check it out, thanks. :)

I have been a fan of the Duniverse for a very long time. First read the book when i was 6 years old. Had to read it again later, of course. Also collected a few Dune things over the years. I say all this mostly because i know about this conflict of interrest between the "based on the novel" vs "based on the game" groups. It has been apparent on this messageboard since 2000 when we first started thinking about doing our own game. At the time i think Olaf van der Spek (the main programming dude) was of the "based on the novel" crowd. Those that do Dune2 clones circumvent this issue in a very nice way though. I don't have that option so i might aswell bring the issue into the open. I want to do a Dune2 mod for Tribes2 as a trial run for the mod i'll do for Flashpoint2 when that game comes out. I've done a prelim and know the procedures will be similar although the Flashpoint mod will require alot more work and detail and scripting.

Reason: (sorry if this is a boring read)

Everyone in the RTS games industry have been moaning for many years now that the RTS game template set by Dune2 has been over used and expanded to the point where there truly seem to be nothing new under the sun. Westwood has tried and died. Blizzard has decided to be true to their vision and went after their role-playing roots. This whole business of going 3D was hoped to revive the RTS market. The truth was that it was a gimmic that had the opposite effect in many cases at the time, due to the average hardware specs but also sloppy implementation (tight deadlines were probably a factor). Recently there has been some signs of hope though (Relic).

To my mind things have changed now. Flashpoint, running the chain of command mod, represents a very good direction for RTS games. Maybe it will start a new more serious genre (bear in mind the cousin of Flashpoint being used for military training: Virtual Battlefield Simulator). I see this as a good tribute to Dune2. It is very apropriate.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Two things...

Some might have noticed if they're trying to play the game that they get an error when trying to refresh the serverlist. As mentioned previously in this thread, this happens when A) your connection is down, and B) the master server is down.

In this case (since about thursday or friday) the MS is down. It usually goes down anywhere from a half week to a week and a half at most. If it doesn't come back in a timely manner, I switch the servers over to one of the fan-run master servers, and post instructions on how to use the new lists.

And for Fanconius :)

Sorry about the delay; I've had a lot to do. Bashar put it well I think. I am one of those in the camp that a game based off of something should be well.. based off of it. I really enjoyed the RTS Dune games, but they wern't really Dune. They would have been just as good having developed their own universe to base it off of. Anyway, I'm still not really clear on what you had planned to do with a T2 mod. You're last post somewhat confused the issue for me. What you do on a FPS platform and what you do on an RTS platform (I assuming Flashpoint is a RTS.. I've never seen it though so I don't know) are going to be fairly different. There is some measure of cross over; for instance whenever I do a FPS, I try to make sure it's heavily teambased enough so that if you don't have any command structure/team strategies your team will seriously suffer. I'm also warey of your mention that you'ld be doing it as a "trial run." If I did anything, it would be done from start to finish assuming no drastic issues arise.

So.. basically after rambling about as much as you do ;), we probably still arn't being clear to eachother our individual intentions on working on such a project. My direction would be roughly equivelent to what I did with T1, only less "tribes-like" and hopefully with a more realistic bent to it.

[Falconius]

The Tribe2 game engine and the way the game works makes for fairly quick unpolished implementation.

Doing Flashpoint will take 5 times longer.

The whole Battlefield series is a cheap pathetic piece of EA trash compared to Flashpoint.

Check it out:

http://www.main.thechainofcommand.net/

[Tezcatlipoca]

As I mentioned before, I've worked with T2. I, as also mentioned, cannot say anything on Flashpoint (the link btw is not active), but for T2, the game was built for quick and easy modification. But that doesn't mean that things get done quickly. If you want to implement something complex, there isn't necessarilly anything quick about it.

As for something quick and unpolished, I wouldn't do something unpolished. I would do it from start to finish, barring any drastic problems, and would certainly make sure it was polished as much as possible.

As for the battlefield series, I absolutely agree; although I'm not sure where that comes in here :P.

[Falconius]

As for the battlefield series, I absolutely agree; although I'm not sure where that comes in here :P.

Good. i knew you would know Battlefield, see? And now you could perhaps check another site to familiarize you with the game you know nothing about, but which is similar to Battlefield? The chain of command site went down the day after my post. And, given the circumstance one can only understand and feel sympathy for them. This one might also go down, although the Finns are probably not so active on the battlefields of the world as the Brits and Americans:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~fdfmod/

also check http://www.ofpec.com/

The idea behind a quick unpolished implementation for T2 is simply the fact that it is possible to do this then polish and refine afterward. If you check my link you should start to understand the enomity of a Flashpoint implementation.

But that doesn't mean that things get done quickly. If you want to implement something complex, there isn't necessarilly anything quick about it.

The word complex is key.

Tribes2 is a fairly simple aged commercial game. Flashpoint is a full fleged military class simulation that somehow made it to the general public. The LOD disparity between the game and the simulator should be obvious. But if you do a Tribes2 mod you have done 20% of the work for a Flashpoint one. Why do a Tribes2 MOD at all? Mostly because the T2 mod should be doable within a 4 month period if you push it. O.K. i'll spell it out: Flashpoint WILL take alot more effort. However: the developer promised that it will be easy to port custom maps, units and missions into Armed Assault. The thought of flying an orni over the vast desert map you could get in Armed Assault... over 200 sq. kilometres...

[Tezcatlipoca]

First a general message:

The master server is back up, and both Dune servers--House Corrino, and the newest The Landsraad(Hosted 24/7 on a T1)--are still there and waiting for action. So grab your knives and get slicin'!

And for Falconius:

We probably should move this conversation to PMs or a more private medium, since (give the number of other posters) it appears to be between just you and myself (unless Bashar wants to continue to talk to? :))

Well, to be honest, I haven't learned much from those links either. I couldn't find much detail about the game itself, just a few random screenshots and some random info about the mods through news posts.

Again, I don't know much about this other game, but I doubt that anything besides the models will be portable to it, and if the game type is as different as you say, even the game design won't be consistant.

The word complex is key.

Tribes2 is a fairly simple aged commercial game.

One thing I recall finding on one of those sites, is that this flashpoint game was released at nearly the same time. About it's existance as a military simulator, again I have no information to go on about that. But as for simple, I disagree. If you wanted to make a simple mod for it, then yes, it wouldn't take too much effort. But I *wouldn't* make a "simple" mod for it. I don't enjoy simple games made for masses generally. I'd make it detailed, and as complex as I can in my attempt to parallel it with Frank Herbert's world. More-so even then I did with T1.

And I understand you feel this flashpoint game is more complex with T2, and again, I can't dispute that.

As for your time table... I'm skeptical. If we push it, then yes, it's possible. But I know that I for one don't have the time to do it in 4 months. And if we did it in that short of time, it would be riddled with bugs. I don't know how quickly you can pump out models, but for just the models alone, I'd have to believe it would take longer, to say nothing of the scripting.

Basically, what I'm trying to get to the core of, is your possible dedication to making a full, complete mod for Tribes2. I've worked in the past with others that have bailed, or faded out of a project and ended up killing it. I'm not interested in traveling that road again. You're also interested in doing this flashpoint game, which I don't know anything about, and as of this moment don't have much interest in doing anything for. If we did a T2 mod, and you wanted to use your models you made for T2 and use them in flashpoint, I ecourage you to do so, but would hope you would do so after we were done, or at least at the same time, with the same amount of dedication.

[Tezcatlipoca]

News upadate having to do with the mod and server:

The server will be going back to being up part time instead of 24-7. This of course is the result of having to pay for my electricity once again. On the plus side, this also will probably mean that it won't be down for a week at a time while I download massive files.

But at any rate, due to the new uptime schedule, we should redirect all traffic to "The Landsraad" server hosted by apo. It *should* be up 24/7, and is a pretty slick server, so by all accounts it should be better then my own. If you ever find it down, I encourage you to go to http://wokka.org/cgi-bin/irc/irc.cgi and send a private message to Apo bugging him to get it back up STAT :).

Last thing I wanted to mention, was I had the urge to create a few more maps for Dune. I have some in mind that'll probably use up all my urge, but if anyone had some nifty suggestions, go ahead. I wanted to do some that focus more on making for a good game then having a completely detailed novel backdrop. Here's what I've got so far:

-Finish the Spice And Ice campaign (making it a completely serverside campaign, assuming you have DOX)

-Make a new campaign based in a large canyon; basically a big multi-mission "Push"

-Two more ISS maps, possibly allowing for a campaign to be made out of them (although I'd prefer 4 maps for a campaign)

Quesions? Comments? Does anyone even read this thread besides me? :P

[Tezcatlipoca]

Unhappy post time. FETL has decided to pull their tribes server (including the Dune server "The Landsraad") due to lack of interest. I.e. you guys didn't play enough and didn't get enough other people to play. So we're back down to the one server again running only on partial uptime. If anyone has any alternate solutions let me know or post on the forum about them. Apo suggested donations could keep the server up and running, but I told him that wasn't likely to happen. If I was wrong, let me know but...

In other news, I still have to finish the Spice and Ice campaign, and plan on doing so soon. There's also a few other potential projects in the works, including a small interactive training mode for new players to the Dune server, and possibly some bots to keep people's attention when no one else is available to play.

Oh, and a few fed2k related statistics (that I know about):

Fed2k members who tried the game: 4

Fed2k members who played more then a week at one time: 2

Fed2k members who still play: 1

Kinda weird given that it's a free game, and the number of views this thread has had! What's going wrong?

[Andrew]

I'm sure my ISP would have the game blocked. They block most ports which is rediculous.

And I don't have much time, especially since my wireless internet cuts out about every 5 minutes for 20 seconds to 1 minute.

But it was definitely a fun game to play, and once the "popular" servers became boring, it really made the Dune mod a lot of fun, as it wasn't just a "hold shoot button and blow everything up" game.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Based on the "statistics" I've noticed (and posted in my last post in this thread) I'm a bit curious. Instead of trying to guess at it, I'll see if anyone wants to help me out :).

Q: What kind of incentives would be required to get you (the reader, whomever you may be) to play the game?

Is it mostly the same as Andrew's situation? I know Bashar is on dialup, so downloading the game was actually a big hurdel for him (not that it stopped him!).

So what's your answer?

[Andrew]

Hmm, is it possible to package the whole thing into one zip file so people can download/unzip and run the game with dune mod (I guess at first I thought of including tribes game as well, but maybe one package that contains all your Dune stuff so all you ahve to do is unzip in tribes folder and everything would unzip to the proper place)?

I know on the main page http://www.jmods.bravepages.com/DUNE.html  I don't see anything about where to download the actual tribes game.

Dammit, now I wanna try it out again to see what my connection is like.

First thing I thought of was: "Where do I download Tribes?" Hmm, maybe I got it on CD, but where?

Sierra might have gotten rid of it by now, HOTU is sloww.

[Andrew]

Where can I download the 1.11 update? the ftp for that doesn't work eithor (since my isp for some reason blocked the sierra ftp it seems)

Could you upload it to http://www.mytempdir.com/  ?

EDIT:

Nevermind

http://www.the-junkyard.net/files-tribes.php?action=listfiles&category=8

works fine :)

EDIT:

Unable to ping master server :(

damn ISP

[Tezcatlipoca]

I've updated the Dune-mod's main page with download links to downloading the game. On that page you can find two links to download the actual game, and two links to download the patches (one of each of the two are the official Sierra FTP links, the other two are non-FTP links, for those of you who have trouble with the first, like Andrew). The page also contains a link to the tutorial I wrote for getting set up completely with the game, in a step by step manner.

I also edited the first post of this thread to reflect all the important links you might need or want for this game so no one has to go hunting for them. I split them up into catagories of player necessity, server hosting necessity, and extra info.

So that continues with the question I posed earlier-

Q: Having provided better organization and incorporated Andrew's ideas so things are a lot easier to find (does it need more? let me know), what other kinds of things, or incentives would get you to play the game?

P.S. I've recieved suggestions that I'll have another consistant, low pinging host once again that will be hosting another server... I suspect this will be on the basis of how much action the server gets, so who can I count on to help keep that server up and active? :D

[Andrew]

Ya, I've installed it and the patch but its not able to ping master server, so it doesn't look like a go for me :(

Unless I can manually add in your server and see if it can connect (maybe the master server thingy uses one of my blocked ports).

Unless there is another way to connect to the master server to see if I can get the list of servers, and maybe one or two servers would work :)

[Tezcatlipoca]

Your inbox is full andrew :P

Hrm. Weird problem. Do you know which ports specifically are blocked on your network? Try a port scan on yourself from the outside and see what doesn't make it.

We could probably get a way around this. I've never had to deal with it before but...

At worst, if/when the second host gets up, then ya, we can get you the info for that server, and you'll be able to ping it and connect (hopefully!). With my server, unfortunately, for the same reason you can't set it as a favorite, it wouldn't work; my port changes every time I restart the server, which is just about every day, sometimes more.

Are you on a university network? Those are about the only ones I know of, besides a personal network, that would be blocking ports. The tribes ports are generally 28000 to 28008. If it is a university network's firewall, we're not going to be able to (read: we shouldn't) take care of the problem. Otherwise, it's probably something we can deal with.

[Andrew]

No, I'm on a "private" network where the ISP people block and do whatever they want (I think they just blocked several more ports as another online game is not showing any servers responding that were earlier today).

Wow, I can't even connect to msn through Miranda, must have it blocked.

I'm gonna have to phone them about this uneccesary blocking. (they do it to block P2P during the day)

Cleaned a couple messages in my inbox.

Is there a program that can scan for open ports?