Ghandi

[emprworm]

and what point was Duke making with this?

"Hehe, you are sooo hypocritical, it's hilarious! ;D ;D

(PS: OMG! Two smilies in a row! Did I crash the forum! ::) ) "

[TMA_1]

"Pound North Korea into oblivion" ---empr's thread about taking out korean weaponry.

"ill say one thing about Ghandi: he is probably the last peaceful revolutionist this planet will ever see." ---empr's thoughts on ghandi, awww.lol

double standard...? lol

[emprworm]

Pound North Korea into oblivion" ---empr's thread about taking out korean weaponry.

"ill say one thing about Ghandi: he is probably the last peaceful revolutionist this planet will ever see." ---empr's thoughts on ghandi, awww.lol

double standard...? lol

nope..

[TMA_1]

lol you like non violent peace but your dictitorial ideals fly in the face of it. I was the one that said I wouldnt fight a dictator because its not my place. you said my pacifism was wrong but that is what ghandi preached.lol that is why you made double standards.

[emprworm]

if you are the one that looks at this picture and thinks the world should do nothing but ask nicely "please stop that" then yea, you're pacifism i think is wrong.

You see, I am of the moral conviction that a world with the power to stop this kind of thing MUST stop it. You can make no moral argument that this kind of thing should be accepted by anyone. This is a moral obligation to stop Crimes against Humanity of this nature. We have no excuse before God to allow slavery and brutality of this nature to flourish. While you drink your milkshakes, eat pizzas, watch movies and live up the fun life, women and children are being beaten and murdered and enslaved. And to just shrug your shoulders and say "ahhh, well we have no right to interferre with their politics" is, to me, an affront to humanity. You look at that woman in the picture and tell me she is just a "politic". That is deplorable. Must be nice living in the ole' mighty USA isn't it? You are all nice and protected. Its really easy to just say "let them be" right? Well you honestly think that woman WANTED YOU TO LET HER BE? You cannot hear her silent pleas for help? And here is TMA living in a world that CAN STOP IT, yet you do nothing but kick back and watch? It is disgusting.

Maybe I am the only one in here that can actually hear this woman and others like her scream for help. Maybe I am the only one that knows that those with the power to help her MUST help her? Perhaps I am alone in this room, but I know I am not alone in the world.

Seeking peaceful solutions and justification of force are not mutual exclusive propositions. There are times for both. ghandi would have been executed if he tried his peaceful revolution Afghanistan.

[Edric O]

STOP IT!!! Damn it, you're turning this into a clone of the "Pound North Korea into oblivion" topic! >:(

[emprworm]

the topic has nothing to do with Korea. I never even mentioned it, Edric. My post was 100% relevant. TMA thought I had a double standard. He raised a valid question. I explained how use of force is sometimes required when a peaceful solution (like Ghandi did) is not possible. The Korean thread was locked due to flames. If your desire is to now lock this thread, well you are headed in the right direction.

Very strange too, considering that post I made above is perhaps one that I put the most care, time and thought into of all posts I have made over the last 2 weeks. There are no flames in there and it is relevant to the subject of Ghandi (use of Force vs. Non-Force in changing a government). So I have no idea what your beef is, but this I do know: your post was certainly OT

[VigilVirus]

Edric's point is, emprworm, you posted the same post and the same picture in the Oblivion thread. And now you're starting the same exact discussion.

[emprworm]

because it is the same subject. scroll up Vigil. Look at TMA's post contrasting use of force vs. peace to change a government. Dont start this crap about me going OT. If it is OT, it is BARELY OT. THere are scores...a plethora...of threads on these boards that contain posts that are wwwaaaayyyy more OT than what I posted. Perhaps my post wasnt 100% in the center of the topic, but it was most definately on the peripheral of the topic. Unlike all this crap you guys are now spewing about me being OT. The more you talk about my "partially on topic" post, the more completely OT this thread gets. If your goal is to simply pick on posts that are OT, you can do a lot better than my post above. Unless your goal is to pick on me. lol

[VigilVirus]

My point is, we have already heard it at least five times in the last thread and I don't think that anyone wants to hear it again. Your constant repetitiveness is getting annoying.

[quoudam72]

I liked Ghandi. I am quite sure he would have been a Mac user.

[emprworm]

constantly hearing what? You mean things like this?

Sometimes insults are necessary and anavoidable to prove one's point.

(taken from this thread).

Yea, I was kind of getting tired of that sort of thing too.

[VigilVirus]

I only said that once. How is that repetitive?

[emprworm]

i was referring to the actual insults.

and yes, they were repetitive.

[VigilVirus]

While you drink your milkshakes, eat pizzas, watch movies and live up the fun life, women and children are being beaten and murdered and enslaved.

It's the way humans are. And you can't do a damn thing about it. You can't prevent all those evil things that go on in this world. It's the way of life.

[VigilVirus]

i was referring to the actual insults.

and yes, they were repetitive.

If you reread your own posts you will see the reason for them. You called everyone in the forum Nazis and anti-humanists.

[emprworm]

no you cant prevent individual evil acts, but you should make every effort to stop organized evil when it is discovered- most notably an entire populace under slavery and oppression.

[Edric O]

While you drink your milkshakes, eat pizzas, watch movies and live up the fun life, women and children are being beaten and murdered and enslaved.

no you cant prevent individual evil acts, but you should make every effort to stop organized evil when it is discovered- most notably an entire populace under slavery and oppression.

Emprworm, I completely agree with you on these points. It seems we only disagree on the means by which to prevent that.

[emprworm]

If you reread your own posts you will see the reason for them. You called everyone in the forum Nazis and anti-humanists

ok thats it. I tried. I guess this thread is doomed to the dungeon now.

Ok, Mr. Hall monitor. How nice of you to be policing the threads making sure I'm on topic. Lets now review the posts of Vigil in this thread entitled Ghandi:

Vigil Post 1

Vigil Post 2

Vigil Post 3

Vigil Post 4

Vigil Post 5

Vigil Post 6

Vigil Post 7

Vigil Post 8

If you do a word search in all Vigil's posts I cited above, not once will you even find the word "Ghandi" let alone see any post even remotely related to the topic. In fact, 100% of Vigil's posts in this thread have been as far Off Topic as Alpha Centauri is centimeters to earth. A role model for on-topic posting?

Now, I'm quite frankly sick of old bones following me around from the Korea thread to nitpick my posts. I now would like to call the attention of the board admins to officially review my so-called OFF TOPIC post located here:

Post Vigil is Nitpicking

I tied this post into the topic at hand, and while it is not 100% in the center of the topic, I truly believed it was at least on topic enough not to warrant a barrage of accusations of being OT. I will make you a deal now Vigil since I am sick of your nitpicking my posts from thread to thread: You leave me alone, I leave you alone. Let the BOARD ADMINS do their job. I dont need you policing my posts for topic validity.

[emprworm]

Emprworm, I completely agree with you on these points. It seems we only disagree on the means by which to prevent that

i know you agree with those points Edric. I've always known that. I would never think for a second you would approve of organized human slavery and barbarism. Ghandi, I believe, was successful because he was a Hindu. Hinduism, if you look at as a whole, is a very peaceful, nonvoilent religion. Because he was changing the hearts of a land of people who already were nonviolent, it was more prone to success. With Afghanistan, how could anything other than the minimal force that the UN used (and it was truly minimal) have been a better solution?

[VigilVirus]

I never said that your post was offtopic, all I said that it was already said many times in the Korea thread. Don't you get than no one wants to hear the same ting over and over again?

Not many of your posts deal with Ghandi either.

But anyways, you're right, I am going offtopic also and I'm sorry to those who were annoyed because of it.

Ontopic - at last

I think Ghandi's idea of pacifism is really the true answer to world's problems. It has been shown by the past centuries that violence does always lead to more violence evne if you're doing it for the "good" of "all" people.

[emprworm]

It has been shown by the past centuries that violence does always lead to more violence evne if you're doing it for the "good" of "all" people.

??? A lot of blood was shed in order to end slavery. If I were a black person, I would most certainly say that violence was for the good of all people and it was necessary.

just because violence may be needed to solve a problem doesn't make it wrong. Sometimes using violence is actually the moral thing to do.

[VigilVirus]

Using violence is never moral. Think of it, it's a contradiction in itself.

[Anathema]

Don't be so naive. How would you have stopped Hitler, using nothing but...er...peaceful demonstrations?

[emprworm]

violence is often moral. it is not a contradiction.

ever hear of a moral dilemma? ever hear of shades of gray?

you find a man raping your wife and your daughters are tied up and bound. another man is going to shoot them point blank in the head, and is armed with a gun. you enter the room and their backs are to you. You have a gun as well and one quick chance to save the lives of your family, knowing that unless you use lethal force, the man with the gun will finish the job. I guess you let your family die then?

Either way there will be some dead bodies. Either you do the 'ghandi' like thing and say

1. "hey guys, lets talk about this. I just want to....." KAPOW! you and family Dead.

2. you can do nothing...KAPOW! you and family Dead.

3. Or you can defend your family...KAPOW! Perpetrators Dead.

Death is inevitable. Only option 3 is moral.