OK, so who of you are there?

[Acriku]

So you don't find any ambiguities in the bible? I remember someone who is a christian saying this...hmm...

[sneezer3]

And please get informed about the Catholic beliefs regarding Salvation. Right now you have no idea what you're talking about. Baptism is not Salvation!!

Like i said before. inless they changed it recently that is still what they belive. and some belive otherwise. but that number is low. At the present time that website you found is the only prove i got. but i *KNOW* that most Cathlics belive don't belive grace though faith.

But i agree with what you said. Baptism is not Salvation.

btw Edric if you are right then us argueing over this would be pointles.

[Edric O]

but i *KNOW* that most Cathlics belive don't belive grace though faith.

And how exactly do you *KNOW* this? ::)

[sneezer3]

And how exactly do you *KNOW* this? ::)

I have heard it twice and seeing what that website said and what you said that proves it even more.

But like i said. 2 Christans argueing over what the Cathlics belive is preety pointles.

[Edric O]

You probably heard it twice from people who are just as ignorant as you are, or who deliberately tried to deceive you...

Did you actually hear a CATHOLIC say this??

[sneezer3]

You probably heard it twice from people who are just as ignorant as you are, or who deliberately tried to deceive you...

Did you actually hear a CATHOLIC say this??

If you think i'm ignorant then thats your problem. if you don't trust my sources then thats your problem.

And no i din't hear a Cathlic say it. but i have heard it before and seeing that site and you say Salvation by grace though faith seems to prove it even more.

Let me ask you something. where did you hear otherwise?

[emprworm]

and none of those 3000 Translations are demonic has long has there KJV.

lol! ROFL. Ok, heres the deal Sneezer:

KJV = OLD ENGLISH.

Rest of the world's 2,999 languages : NON-ENGLISH

THEREFORE,

I guess what you are saying is that ALL bible's are spawned by Satan except for the Original God-Inspired Inerrant King James Bible. :P ::)

[emprworm]

You know, Sneezer, I was just thinking about all those poor non-english speaking people all over the world. BIllions of them. . They have no idea what the KJV says and probably never will. those poor souls. So they go to hell now? Wait, they already have a Bible translated in their language....uhh....oops. Its not the KJV though. OH NO! THEY ARE GOING TO BURN NOW?

WAIT! I KNOW!

Send missionaires throughout the world, force people to learn old english, then they can read the Bible in the Original King James.

::) :P :O

[sneezer3]

Now before you say anything. I wanna let you know that maybe you have a point. But last i heard Cathlics do not belive you get to heaven by grace. but i'm not gonna argue over it. its pointles. with the possablety that your right.

And Emprworm is right. Did you know that there are deliberate mistranslations in the KJV? Let me give you an example:

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

- Exodus 22:18 (KJV)

This was done at King James' personal orders. He was afraid of witches, you see... Unfortunately, it has found its way into other translations as well... The original text said:

Thou shalt not suffer an evil doer to live among you.

- Exodus 22:18 (several other translations, including the Romanian one which I have; also in the original manuscripts, as far as I know)

I actully knew somebody that studyed around that area.

I recomend you look at the context around it. you'l find your takeing it out of context.

[sneezer3]

You know, Sneezer, I was just thinking about all those poor non-english speaking people all over the world. BIllions of them. . They have no idea what the KJV says and probably never will. those poor souls. So they go to hell now? Wait, they already have a Bible translated in their language....uhh....oops. Its not the KJV though. OH NO! THEY ARE GOING TO BURN NOW?

WAIT! I KNOW!

Send missionaires throughout the world, force people to learn old english, then they can read the Bible in the Original King James.

::) :P :O

No. don't force them to learn old english lol. just get another one thats in there language and is KJV. if not then your in a fix between two strights.

And yes the NIV could be used to show somebody how to get saved but by no means would that justfiy its use inless its all you got. Otherwise its to dull of a sword and you'l need a sharper weapon. it waters down the word.

[emprworm]

but sneezer, i dont like the NIV. I always thought it was a weak translation. I read the NASB, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Esp since i can understand it.

if you think the NASB is inferior, show me some of its errors. Ok?

[sneezer3]

and none of those 3000 Translations are demonic has long has there KJV.

lol! ROFL. Ok, heres the deal Sneezer:

KJV = OLD ENGLISH.

Rest of the world's 2,999 languages : NON-ENGLISH

THEREFORE,

I guess what you are saying is that ALL bible's are spawned by Satan except for the Original God-Inspired Inerrant King James Bible. :P ::)

I think i missed this post at first. :(

Well. anyway.

Yes i baseicly am. but like i have been saying those traslations have errors in them. unlike the KJV. Gods holy word purefid 7 times.

but sneezer, i dont like the NIV. I always thought it was a weak translation. I read the NASB, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Esp since i can understand it.

if you think the NASB is inferior, show me some of its errors. Ok?

I think you mean if i think the KJV is inferior right? i'm gonna assume thats what you ment.

Ok. but i'm not sure right off. whats NASB stands for. tell me and i can preety likely get you some within 48 hours. ;)

EDIT i think its the new american standerd. i'm gonna dig up some stuff on it. no need to reply inless i'm wrong.

[Edric O]

And no i din't hear a Cathlic say it. but i have heard it before and seeing that site and you say Salvation by grace though faith seems to prove it even more.

Let me ask you something. where did you hear otherwise?

The one place that can't possibly be wrong about Catholic teachings, the official site of the Vatican: www.vatican.va

Click here to go directly to the Cathecism of the Catholic Church. This is the statement of their beliefs. It will tell you everything you want to know.

(Catholics believe they are saved by grace and works. And so do the Orthodox. If you want to find out more about what the means, click on the link I gave you)

[The_Sadukar]

[chicktalk]But Edric, haven't you consideret that the official site of the Vatican is full of satanic lies, and is made by the pope aka antichrist[/chicktalk]

[Caid Ivik]

Why do you think Vatican is a satanic lair? Even orthodox aren't against it, just they don't consider it as a leader of Church.

[The_Sadukar]

If you saw it I postet it in chicktalk, you know Jack Chick, then guy you called a heretic, and the one who Sneezer consider the only reliabel source of information.

It was meant as a sarcastic joke.

[Caid Ivik]

Oh, I tought it was just bad syntax ;D

[emprworm]

Yes i baseicly am. but like i have been saying those traslations have errors in them. unlike the KJV. Gods holy word purefid 7 times.

and this is where you are wrong, Sneezer. You are no different than a Catholic who is inserting made up doctrine into the Bible. You are proclaiming inerrancy for the KJV where no such Biblical doctrine exists. I have exposed your theological error. The KJV is a translation of manuscripts written in Hebrew and Greek, and as such, it is not infallible. The doctrine of inerrancy applies to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, and your reverence of the KJV is not the problem so much as your demonization of every other Bible in the world in all 3000 languages of humanity, thereby proclaiming that a bunch of white people are more 'holy' than everyone else just because they have the Almighty KJV and the Japanese people have a Japanese translation. When people translate the Bible into other languages, the standard they should use is the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts...NOT the KJV. You set the KJV as the ultimate standard, and then CONDEMN those like myself who set the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as the ultimate standard. Your condemnation of God's word in 2999 languages is a very dangerous, very judgmental thing to do, and I sincerely hope you pray about this because thinking God cares only about white english speaking people is offensive. It is my hope that when Azerbaji scholars translates the Bible into Azer, that they use the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts....NOT the KJV as their standard. Someone needs to translate the KJV into english, because it is written in Egyptian Heiroglyphics for all I care. Secondly, you follow Jack Chick like a Catholic follows a pope. Jack Chick is not infallible. He is a fallen human who has opinions about many non-essential doctrines who is guaranteed to be wrong about some of them. And this is why I believe your condemnation of God's word in 2999 languages is exceedingly dangerous. If the Holy, Infinite, All-Powerful, Sovereign God is using and blessing ANY of those translations, then you in a very bad position. God is greater than Jack CHick. God is greater than an English translation of the Bible in a 500 year old language that few can understand. I am very disappointed that you put all your KJV readers on a 'holier than thou" pedestal. Why humans do that is beyond me because it makes no sense. you are NOT holier than someone from India who reads an Indian translation of the Bible- translated from the Hebrew and Greek, just because you have a KJV and they do not. You minimize God everytime you cast your judgment down on someone. I am glad that God is not Jack Chick in this matter. I dont dislike Jack Chick, however this is one issue he is incorrect on. Dont let Jack Chick do all the thinking for you. You have a mind of your own. Jack Chick does not have the mind of God. There is no such doctrine as the infallible KJV. I dont mind that you love your KJV, but when you actually demonize all the other ones, you cast judgment on God AND all those believers who translated them...AND all the people who will be in heaven because of the work that was done. Be careful sneezer, because this is the kind of thing that cults spawn from. This is the last time I post about this issue.

[Edric O]

Emprworm, please calm down...

[The_Sadukar]

why it's fun ;D

[sneezer3]

Emprworm, please calm down...

Indeed.

"You are no different than a Catholic who is inserting made up doctrine into the Bible."

No. God told us not to alter it. and he told us his word is purefid 7 times

"The doctrine of inerrancy applies to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts"

No. it applys to the KJV has well.

"your reverence of the KJV is not the problem so much as your demonization of every other Bible in the world in all 3000 languages of humanity, thereby proclaiming that a bunch of white people are more 'holy' than everyone else just because they have the Almighty KJV and the Japanese people have a Japanese translation. "

You are putting words in my mouth then fireing away at them! you are useing the same logic that was used agenst you in another thread. I do not think that makes them inferior. or do i think that makes me more holy. <Note holy means Godly>

"Secondly, you follow Jack Chick like a Catholic follows a pope. Jack Chick is not infallible. He is a fallen human who has opinions about many non-essential doctrines who is guaranteed to be wrong about some of them. And this is why I believe your condemnation of God's word in 2999 languages is exceedingly dangerous. If the Holy, Infinite, All-Powerful, Sovereign God is using and blessing ANY of those translations, then you in a very bad position. "

I do not "fallow Jack Chick". Has far has i can tell. he hasn't said anything yet i disagree with. i have a mind of my own. and i already had it made up Even if Jack Chick was never bornI would STILL think Cathlicism is wrong. and i would STILL use the KJV 1611 and even if Jack Chick is wrong in some areas i'm still gonna use his tracts. inless a certin one is wrong in a certin area. the i'm not gonna use that one.

and theres still over 80 more left! ;D

And by the way. you sure to seem to be jugemental about Cathlics! You are narrow minded theres only one way to heaven! Holyer then thou your wrong attude! You cast jugement on all of those Cathlics that belive in God. I warn you if God is blessing any one of those Cathlics this puts you in a Very bad position! Think of all of the Cathlics that will be in heaven That God blessed! Useing the same logic that your useing with me.

"Be careful sneezer, because this is the kind of thing that cults spawn from. "

Don't worry about all of the people that belive this are Babtist.

And once again you are puting words in my mouth and fireing at it. I am not casting jugement on the Translaters or the people that have gotten saved by the translations. It is a good thing that they are saved but they are misguided on the bible.

"this is why I believe your condemnation of God's word in 2999 languages is exceedingly dangerous."

And i am not condeming them. i ther Gods word i'm all for it! but if there translations of Gods word to try and interpret what they mean then i'm not for it

"I am very disappointed that you put all your KJV readers on a 'holier than thou" pedestal. "

I do no such thing no more then you put Cathlics on the pedestal. and we both know your don't!

btw i'l get those errors has soon has i can with the New Amercian Standerd.

"Dont let Jack Chick do all the thinking for you. You have a mind of your own. Jack Chick does not have the mind of God."

Yes indeed i do and i don't let him do all of my thinking for me.

And about him not haveing the mind of God.

"Let this mind be in your, which was also in Christ Jesus"

Philippians 2:5

[The_Sadukar]

Quote:

"Let this mind be in your, which was also in Christ Jesus"

Philippians 2:5

In other words let soembody not you do your thinking for you?

If that's what it means, then it's what I call slave mentality, and I despises it.

[Edric O]

Personally, I can't make any sense out of that Bible quote, probably because it's from the KJV and thus written in old English... Let me look at it in some understandable language.

[emprworm]

"The doctrine of inerrancy applies to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts"

No. it applys to the KJV has well.

uhhh... please enlighten me on the biblical verse that says the KJV is inerrant. Surely you dont subscribe to a doctrine that isn't explicitly stated in the Bible?

Also, I would still like to know the errors in the NASB.

And I do want to clairify i do not cast any judgment on any individual catholic. All I say is that they have beliefs that are not Biblical. I cited the evidence of those beliefs (petitioning mary, for example) and then explained how such a thing isn't biblical. That is not the same as judging all catholics, which I would dare not do. Scores of catholics are far better people than I am, no doubt.

[Edric O]

Let's see... Philippians 2:5... the NAS says:

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus

Good. That clears things up. See, having several different translations can be an advantage in understanding the true meaning of the verses.