Future for the Humans or other.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

The bible doesnt attack Science, Neither they are saying something about it.

God won't make us perfect. We must reach it for ourselves

[The_old_worm]

Then why do the religious attack science?  If we are to strive for perfection ourselves, then our quest for knowledge would be included in that process.  Why, then does the Church continually hamstring science?

[quoudam72]

We are not living in the Dark Ages anymore what organized religion are we talking about that hamstrings science? Science is the mechanism of the physics of the universe and religion is the spiritual enhancement within our being of understanding the surrounding universe.

[The_old_worm]

In Kansas, Evolution is no longer to be a required teaching in Biology classes. In fact it is proposed that creation be taught in science classes as an alternative theory even though it is not supported scientifically.

Genetic research is continually hamstrung by the religious factions who claim that we are "playing God".  How arrogant are we to think that we can "play God"?

Where have the new discoveries of the workings of the universe come?  From science.  The Church has accepted that they already know the answers and no longer search for new explainations.  When science finds that new knowledge, the church either dismisses it because it contradicts their dogma, or they bend their own beliefs to accept it.

The advancement of the human race comes from science and philosophy, while the Church sits on it's ass proclaiming to already know the truth.

[gryphon]

I fail to see your point Old Worm. [ I think ]

Science lookes for the new answers, but they have to be "scientiffic" answers, so it does the same as religion. Providing answers within it's own believes.

And the advancements of humans don't only come from science and philosophy, but also from philosophy and religion.

The only main thing that I've learned so far with my philosophy education [ not jet compleated but still we're getting there :) ] is that you have to keep asking, keep doubting every thing. Know why you do things, the reason behind it and your motives and sutch.

The current philosophers [ Quine, Friege, Russell, Moore, Ryle, Putnam, . . .] are either saying that there is no point and we have to "keep up the conversation for conversations sake" or that "there is no real truth but we can gain knowledge by making progress". [ the spiral that goes up, it has no beginning and probbebly no end but it still does go up, and so does our knowledge. ]

It could be that you mean the same thing and I failed to see it.

:)

[The_old_worm]

Gryphon, "you have to keep asking, doubting everything, and know why you do things , the reason behind it, your motives and such" IS exactly what I have been trying to say!

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Myth's can be true or can not be true. Science can't prove that. But neither can Religion.

Oh yeah, Btw i never saw churches having problem's with Science. Science is the one who is trying to attack religion with their "Theory's" about Jezus and god.

Oh wait. We are all programmed lifeform's who need brain pulses to stop argueing about Religion and Science :) hehe

[Acriku]

Kirov, science does nothing criticizing the religions. The lone scientists are the ones that do, and do not let them put it into your mind that every scientist does! Every scientist has his own area, religion is just one of them. And science CAN prove myths. Through scientific equipment we can get closer and closer to the truth of the Loch Ness myth. Among other things!

[exatreide]

Jesuz?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

So they can acquire facts about Hercules and Thor.. Etc etc too?

(( Lochness is more of scientific then mythical if you ask me. They say its a Dinosaur that survived the Disaster ))

[Acriku]

Maybe not, but I was just stating that some could be explained. Then again who knows what we can accomplish in the future.

Edit: A myth is a myth, no matter the religion or science in it.

[The_old_worm]

I think we know now that the sun is not towed by a chariot across the sky by (I can't remember who it was supposed to be).  Myths are attempts by humans to explain the unexplainable, once those phenomenon are explained through scientific methods, we can pretty much rule out the mythological theories.

Churches have major problems with science.  Evolutionary theory, genetic research, are just two examples.  The only reason it seems that science attacks religion is because the facts that we find tend to contradict to writings of the Bible.  Science takes a totally neutral view on God, and would accept the existence of God if proof was given.

Religion on the other hand attacks science in self defense. Why don't Christians want evolution taught in the classroom?  It is a theory based on scientific observations and supported with tangible evidence.  Christians don't want it taught because it makes a hell of a lot more sense than the creation myth in the Bible and they know it.  Because what happens when one of the major events of God's creation is proven to be false?  It throws the whole Bible in question!

Are you seriously suggesting, kirov, that Hercules' godlike strength is reasonable? That Zeus himself had intercourse with a mortal which produced a superhuman Hercules?  Or that the Earth was flooded in 7 days and 7 nights covering all land and one boat filled with all the animals of the world survived that deluge and produced all the life we see today?

It's obvious that these stories were made up to explain things in the world.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

It is possible, Life is crazy enough. Maybe there was the thing called "magic" in the past. But once again, We can never proof that things. Zeus is related to the Hierachy of gods.

And your right a Myth is a myth. We wont know if it is true or false.

*Grabs his Scientific items and bible and runs to the Loch ness monster. *

Okay science time :)

[Acriku]

If you want to believe that Kirov, then go ahead. Kind of childish but go ahead.

[TMA_1]

ask any good scientist and they will tell you some things will never   be proven. I have talked about this to my physics and biology professors. they themselves believe in the vital force. the scientific term for a creator.  Sure genetics can be manipulated. does that make it right? How about evolution. ask any scientist and they will say it isnt a fact. science cant use macro evolution in a scientific test because it has never been seen and cant be done. whats your point acriku?

[Acriku]

About what?

[gryphon]

I just wanted to mention this [ personall note ].

Myths maybe proven wrong in present day, non scientific and sutch. But we can't forget that they have been a "well proven fact" and a "grasp to hold life itself" in the early days. Just as we have our science to holdon to, they had there myths.

So for us they are not real an we can disprove them, the same myths ones where "the only reality" and the thing the people of now forgotten times placed all there hopes upon.

And I think that that should be enough reasons to keep them alive and "mythicall" today and for the future to come.

But again, this is a bit besides the point but I just wanted to mention it. :)

[IxianMace]

If I were to have a superpower, it would be not only to live forever and have the option of killing myself, but I would also be able to be invisible to ALL forms of detection (IR, visual, etc) at will, I wouldn't need to eat and drink, my energy would cycle back and forth, and I would be able 'fold space' like the guild navigators.  8)

[The_old_worm]

ask any good scientist and they will tell you some things will never

[The_old_worm]

Oh, and TMA you're Biology and Physics professors should also admit that their belief in vital force is not a scientific belief.  Order as we see it in the universe CAN happen in nature as longs as somewhere else entropy is increasing at an equal or higher rate.

[gryphon]

What do you mean with entropy, you are refering to the "chaos theory" or to our consept of time ?

Both say that entropy is omnpresent I thought. Not just here or there. But the choas theory does say that a change in that order on the other side of our univers can invluanse our little Earth [ is like quantum mechanics ]

When entropy is relatied to time, it means simply put that we mesure the passing by of time [ cosmological time ] towards the level that entropy is encrysing. So as funny part, when the entropy whould get less, you start to remember the future and not knowing the past. :)

And genetic engenering isn't good, nor is it bad. It's just a theory, what we do with it [ how we use it ] is right or wrong.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Acriku thinks that life is one big Brain pulse and made of Genetic material.. Tleilaxu bla bla. Etc,

Acriku, How can u say that Super power's is childish?

Childishness has more to do with Argueing about the same thing or trying to break off someone opinion.

[Acriku]

First off, don't put words in my mouth and say what I think. Got it?

Second, it is my opinion that it is childish, if not ignorant, that Greek myths are real. In the mythology, people had seen the gods with their own eyes, been raped by Jupiter, and/or had been killed by some god's rage. Do you see that happening now? Zues/Jupiter/Jove was very much interacting with the people on Earth, as were most gods/goddesses. So did they just stop all of a sudden? Please...

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Maybe they are not involving in the Earth matter's. Maybe they left the people.

Maybe they are not showing their powers in front of Science and the other People.

Its the same like that a Werewolf transforms in middle of the crowd.

[gryphon]

Ok, now I'm lost. What our we talkning about now ? ::)