The starting stealth raider

[Charles]

Hi guys,

 

Yesterday I was very surprised to learn that in a standard 8-min no-rush game, an Ordos player is allowed to place his stealth raider right inside an ennemy's refinnery so that harvesters can no longer deliver spice.

 

With all due respects, I would appreciate an explanation about that. I'll try to convince you why it should not be allowed.

 

First of all, why do the 8-min rule exists? Please tell me if I'm wrong, but I came to understand it's fun when each player has the opportunity to develop a strong economy at the beginning of a game. During the 8-min period, we can't attack base or harvesters because it's good to focus on refs and 3 heavy factories so that we develop our economy fast.

 

Here I'm really puzzled at how do we prohibit attacking harvesters, but allow a stealth raider to stop just inside an opponent's refinery. In my opinion, positionning a stealth raider at that precise spot is just as harmful to the opponent's economy as directly attacking his harversters. Maybe even more, because when "Harversters [are] under attack", there is a warning.

 

There is no warning against a stealth raider denying you to use a refinery.

 

How can you defend against this "strategy" in an 8-min no-rush game? One single infantry can't hold a raider so I suppose you must build quickly a barrack in order to position at least 4 infantry (or troopers) near each of your refineries. Or else, you keep your starting units inside your base to deal with stealth raiders and don't scout the map. One way or the other, don't you think it gives the Ordos player a tremendous advantage?

 

Consider also the fact that while we can scout everywhere, we can't stop units inside an ennemy's base in the no-rush period. Because besides automatically firing at units in range (I acknowledge stealth raiders don't ) , it's also harmful because you can't place your new buildings wherever you want. How many times have you played and someone says "Yo blue, move this trike, tnx." "Yo yellow, move units outside of base." etc. So the other question is this: why do we allow a stealth raider to stop inside an opponent's base during the no-rush periode while no other units can?

 

You know, I don't care that much about the no-rush rule. Actually we could try to play no rules on Erg 3 , we could see some creative strategies and build orders. But let's be coherent about what is a "rush". A stealth raider stoping inside a refinery makes this refinery unworkable, in fact if the other player doesn't realize this instantly, it can doom his/her economy. It's great harrasment so I'm curious to know how you don't consider this a "rush" .

 

Best regards and have a good one! :-)

[Gruntlord6]

IMO, this is simply poor sportsmanship. There's no reason this behavior should be tolerated online, as it's clearly an abuse of the 8 min rule.

[Feda]

It's not even allowed, it was discussed before, using stealth raiders to block refineries BEFORE 8 min is not allowed. After rush period is over, it can be an effective strategy, i used it a few times myself.

[FunkyFr3sh]

yea, this should not be allowed during the first 8mins

[X3M]

Is there a way back to look at this? Like a replay perhaps?

Because this happens a lot apparently.

And noobs rather not play the game any more.

When possible, they do it any ways. One also tried this on me, but I noticed right away.

I had troopers everywhere in my base. Infantry can see stealth.

2 suggestions for fixing this:

- Either let an harvester see stealth as well.

- Giving the harvester the option to crush vehicles from the light factory.

What do you think?

[Feda]

None are possible.

Just follow the rules.

[Charles]

In my opinion noobs are able to learn the rules and become regulars if given appropriate chance. Look at Cherif, Juan, Pnumb, etc. There seems to an interesting number of new players. That doesn't mean they become very good but the important thing is they can play and have fun.

[Gruntlord6]

None are possible.

Just follow the rules.

I thought that was a setting in TIBED is it not?

[Feda]

I thought that was a setting in TIBED is it not?

TibEd doesn't have anything for stealth detection and neither has for vehicles crushing other vehicles.

[X3M]

Gruntlord6, it is your version of Dune2000 that most people play online.

Can you please tell us if something is possible?

Thus stealth detection by the harvester or a crushing ability for the harvester.

Heck, even if you give the refinery itself a stealth detection, would do.

 

And instead of implementing this. You could also give it as an option before starting. Just like how turrets and engineers are disabled. You could enable stealth detection by a harvester or another unit.

 

Just a thought.

[Feda]

You gotta dig deep inside the game files to achieve those 2 options, I honestly doubt it's possible.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just count on people's common sense in respecting the rules? You tell them the rules, if they hit "I'm ready" button it means they agree with them. If they dont follow them in-game, u restart the match and ban them from joining your room.

[Gruntlord6]

Gruntlord6, it is your version of Dune2000 that most people play online.

Can you please tell us if something is possible?

Thus stealth detection by the harvester or a crushing ability for the harvester.

Heck, even if you give the refinery itself a stealth detection, would do.

 

And instead of implementing this. You could also give it as an option before starting. Just like how turrets and engineers are disabled. You could enable stealth detection by a harvester or another unit.

 

Just a thought.

The Harvester already has the ability to crush infantry, crushing tanks would be a cool mod though, but I don't think it would make sense as a solution here.

[X3M]

I actually meant only the light vehicles :D. But that won't do at all I guess.

 

Perhaps giving the stealth raider the infantry armor is the best solution. The additions for the harkonnen and atreides are both infantry too.

And an additional bonus is that the ordos have a fast unit that is actually durable against the cannons. Some sort of new fodder material perhaps?

And it just gets crushed when standing in front of a refinery (or heavy factory) :D.

 

---

 

@FedaYkin

With all due respect, please try to look from the eye's of others.

Allow me to describe people that I encountered in my years of playing online (starcraft mostly)

 

- There are people who don't follow the rules, sometimes you really waist your time on those people without even knowing. I agree with you for just banning them the next round. But preventing is better than curing with most players these days. And to top it off. I know that some had like 10 accounts. And came back every time, just to continue trolling. Yes, those people exist. And expecting them to follow the rules won't help you. Even if you really really expect them to follow the rules. They still won't do so.

 

- And newbs (not noobs) think the game has bugs since the harvesters don't work well. Most of them don't even know about the new units for each house. Thus in their eye's, harvesters won't work. These player won't play any more since the game is "bugged". Only a few (like myself) go to forums and discover that there is a dirty trick.

 

Don't think for yourself, you are pro, think for others too, how do other experience stuff. They can't tell yet, so either warn them on before hand. Or remove the problem from the game itself.

 

(We have a Sally and Anne)

[Gruntlord6]

I actually meant only the light vehicles :D. But that won't do at all I guess.

 

Perhaps giving the stealth raider the infantry armor is the best solution. The additions for the harkonnen and atreides are both infantry too.

And an additional bonus is that the ordos have a fast unit that is actually durable against the cannons. Some sort of new fodder material perhaps?

And it just gets crushed when standing in front of a refinery (or heavy factory) :D.

I don't think we should change a gameplay mechanic like armor over this sort of issue. I do agree that there should be a way to prevent it though.

[NaturePower]

Just place out 1 infantry when raider is blocking way on refinery and catch snapshot in no 8 min rush rule.

theres no other way to stop them, only just disguise