Program "TibEd". Some questions.

[Adriano]

I would like to ask some questions on program "TibEd".

 

First of all. If to open "Units", there is "Weapons".

 

Can you explain me, if you please, what does it mean: "Primary weapon"  "Secondary weapon" ?

Some units have only primary weapon. But someones have both, primary and secondary weapon, for example fremen.

[Nyerguds]

It means they have two weapons. If the logic is done like in Red Alert 1, they will always use the most efficient weapon, depending on what they are attacking.

For example, in Red Alert 1, the Mammoth Tank has both cannons and rocket launchers. It uses its cannons against other tanks, because the cannon weapon is better at penetrating tank armour than the missiles are. However, against infantry, it uses the missiles, because they totally massacre infantry.

[Luminar]

Dune 2000 is other.

 

It will only use secondary weap, if its range is bigger than the primary weap.

And it will use the primary too...

[Nyerguds]

I see. That's just based on dune II then, where Troopers use machine guns for close range, and rockets for long range (though due to a bug their pew-pew gun actually does more damage, in Dune II :P)

[Adriano]

If the logic is done like in Red Alert 1, they will always use the most efficient weapon, depending on what they are attacking.

For example, in Red Alert 1, the Mammoth Tank has both cannons and rocket launchers. It uses its cannons against other tanks, because the cannon weapon is better at penetrating tank armour than the missiles are. However, against infantry, it uses the missiles, because they totally massacre infantry.

I try to understand this logic now. :)  

I install to Atreides Tank the rockets from Missile Tank as Primary weapon and Howitzer as Secondary weapon from Siege tank. It becomes something interesting unit. 

 

The tank fires to the Light Infantry by Howitzer but if infantry is far then it may be rocket. Against enemy tanks this tanks uses rockets.

 

Against buildings... I cannot understand still. Against Wind Trap -- Howitzer. Against Construction Yard - rockets. Maybe type of armor of the buildings is reason of this difference?

[Nyerguds]

Yeah, not all buildings have the same armour type :)

[Adriano]

Some kinds of weapons are more effective against infantry, other weapons are effective against tanks and so on.

I can not understand, what property or attribute in TibEd do it ? 

[Nyerguds]

Well, if it's anything like C&C, the structure is this...

Unit -> weapon -> projectile -> warhead.

Warheads define how much the damage is reduced against each type of armour.

For example, the warhead ArmorPiercing in C&C1 does 25% against armour type 0, 75% against armour type 1, 75% against armour type 2, 100% against armour type 3, 50% against armour type 4.

Armour types are:

0=Infantry (all of them; infantry options don't even include a setting for Armor, it always defaults to 0)

1=Unarmoured vehicle / building (recon bike, and most of the common buildings)

2=Light armour (light vehicles, heavy defence buildings, armoured buildings like the Temple of Nod and weapons factory)

3=Heavy armour (actual tanks, gun turret, airstrip (justified by the fact it's basically a strip of concrete))

4=Very heavy armour (unused)

To compare, the HollowPoint warhead, used for the Commando's sniper, will do 100% to armour type 0 (infantry) but will barely scratch any of the other armour types.

[Adriano]

Thank you very much, Nyerguds ! 

Dank u !  :)  (Is it NOW similar to your mother tongue ?)

[Nyerguds]

Dank u !  :)  (Is it NOW similar to your mother tongue ?)

lol, yes it is. But I don't mind you using English; it's an English forum ;)

[MrFlibble]

Nyer, you should say Na zdorovye! :D (Which actually means 'You're welcome!' and not 'Toast!' or whatever may be inferred from cretain Western films.)

[X3M]

I see. That's just based on dune II then, where Troopers use machine guns for close range, and rockets for long range (though due to a bug their pew-pew gun actually does more damage, in Dune II :P)

I suspect this was entirely intentional.

 

Yeah, not all buildings have the same armour type :)

Siege weapons are good against infantry (no armor).

Rockets are good against heavy armor.

1 group of 5 troopers is also very effective against heavy armored structures. I might add, very very effective. To bad there aren't any APC's.

 

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Proost !!

[Adriano]

Nyer, you should say Na zdorovye! :D (Which actually means 'You're welcome!' (...)

Some off topic from me, sorry. Actually, "zdorovye" means "health". So this is not quite the same that "You're welcome". 

I just want to write it... if somebody want to learn it, then let it be exact translation. 

"Na zdorovye" literally means "On health", "For health".

 

So there can be irony. If somebody asks cigarette, for example, (something unhealthy, as you can understand), then man (who has cigarettes) can give cigarette with the words: "Na zdorovye" (for health). Old joke  ;)

 

P.S. May be to create topic about English translation for not English-speaking people? Something like "Lost in translation".

For stupid and primitive questions :)

"On Windows" or "in Windows", for example.

[MrFlibble]

Actually, "zdorovye" means "health". So this is not quite the same that "You're welcome". 

I just want to write it... if somebody want to learn it, then let it be exact translation. 

"Na zdorovye" literally means "On health", "For health".

На здоровье! (Na zdorovye!) is an idiomatic expression and as such does not merely constitute the sum of its parts. Whereas здоровье indeed means 'health' in its literal sense, Na zdorovye! functions similarly to You're welcome! in contexts like

- Спасибо! (Spasibo!) 'Thanks!'

- На здоровье! (Na zdorovye!) 'You're welcome!'

The "literal" meaning of Na zdorovye! as a whole would probably be more correctly rendered as 'for (your) benefit' - the speaker wishes that what they were thanked for actually is good or beneficial for the person who thanks.

 

So there can be irony. If somebody asks cigarette, for example, (something unhealthy, as you can understand), then man (who has cigarettes) can give cigarette with the words: "Na zdorovye" (for health).

Well, this is something that is likely going to be lost in translation.

[Nyerguds]

Oh, stop discussing Russian, you lot. lol.

 

The "on your health" statement is used in Dutch too, but only as drinking expression.

[X3M]

This is by far the most of topic discussion I ever experienced.

 

:D

 

Might as well discuss the movie 7 years in TibEd.

 

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I Always wondered how the armor worked in tiberian sun. This because you could apply a factor to armor. While it is supposed to be a number to indicate the type?

Or did it only increase health?

[MrFlibble]

IIRC the armour/weapon/warhead system works more or less the same in TS as what Nyer explained for C&C - except it's modifiable via rules.ini from the start.

[Nyerguds]

When I said "Well, if it's anything like C&C, the structure is this..." I meant the structure is like that in ALL C&C games ;)

 

(well, all those in the classic C&C engine anyway. Beyond RA2, I honestly don't care :p)

[MrFlibble]

I do believe there were some minor tweaks between TS and RA2? Or is it only about how much can be modified via rules.ini?

[X3M]

When I said "Well, if it's anything like C&C, the structure is this..." I meant the structure is like that in ALL C&C games ;)

 

(well, all those in the classic C&C engine anyway. Beyond RA2, I honestly don't care :P)

C&C3 is worth it. It got my nostalgic feeling of C&C dawn back.

Thanks to someone of Blizzard :D.

 

But you should burn down every shop that tries to sell C&C4 or RA3.

 

Any way, in C&C 3 you clearly can see that the designer of that game sees bodies, turrets, projectiles/impacts as 3 separate things.

The Mammoth clearly uses the same rockets as the Bulldog. The only difference is that the Mammoth needs to turn its turret for firing and the Bulldog needs to turn at least facing somewhat into the direction.

 

While the projectile and impact are kept realistic together. I am sure you can give a rocket, the damage of a sniper.

[dodgevipergts]

You'd be better off modding EBFD properly with Notepad++ not TibEd.

[Feda]

You'd be better off modding EBFD properly with Notepad++ not TibEd.

This is about Dune 2000 not EBFD.

[dodgevipergts]

Ah... so it is lol, missed the tag at the top. Would be better if Dune 2, Dune 2000 and EBFD had separate modding forums.

[Adriano]

Armor in TibEd for Dune200 has different types.

 

0=NONE
1=WALL
2=BUILDING
3=WOOD
4=LIGHT
5=HEAVY
6=CONCRETE
7=INVULNERABLE
8=CY
9=HARVESTER

 

Is there any subordination? 

 

I mean, armor 3 (wood) stronger than armor 2 (building), concrete stronger than wall, and so on.

Or no? Because, how I can understand, different kinds of weapon have different effectiveness against different armors.

 

Who knows, what is it CY ( item 8 ) ? Or CY is not used in the game?

[X3M]

These are simple the ID numbers for the armor types. They are not the actual armor.

See 7 :D.

 

I think that the Harvester and the CY are exceptions compared to the standard wood/light/heavy

Maybe these types are also used for the crushing of infantry. But Sardaukar give damage to tanks when crushed. Right?