Dune 2000:the era of war

[THE AQIB]

This game is an rts game based on the duniverse(especially dune 2000). The game development is underway. The project was initiated in the month august 2012. The project is currently progressing slowly. The game is planned to take its base as the 'game maker8 engine'. [[As the game is still in paper and pen format, i am giving an oppurtunity to all to add your own ideas. I can't guarantee it will be present in the final version. But any ideas are welcome. Ideas can be on :factions(other than the ones present in the original dune 2000),units(new kinds of units other than the conventional units),buildings(new nbuildkngs espescially defensive buildings),storyline(modified version of the original dune 2000 storyline). Those who want to join the development can pm me about yourselves. Here's your chance. ]]. More information in the next post..... :)

[THE AQIB]

Information about the game: (till now) The game is suppose to be containing the same elements(units,buildings,factions,sandworm) from Dune2000. Atriedes, Harkonnen, Ordos, Emperor, Mercenaries, Smuggler, Fremen are houses present in the game but only Atriedes, Harkonnen& Ordos are present for gameplay. Support for Emperor and other houses will mostly be added as an expansion. Tutorial is included, Multiplayer support will be added later, Unit queue is not favoured, Introductory video is also available with full motion video breifing between missions, Higher resolution than the original game 'd2k', Available selection for graphic quality and shadows, Skrimish&Practice modes included, Compact ingame ui allowing more view of the battlefield, Unit icons segregated to tabs for easier movement, Better ingame jukebox. For more info stay tuned.

[Feda]

Would like to see my defensive structures & some of my units into this. :) I mean those ideas that I sent via PM.

[THE AQIB]

@feda:sure... will see to it. I also want this forum to contribute. (btw your name will be included in credits).

[THE AQIB]

@hawker: damn sure. but this game sustains the original dune2000 environment. The game missing the spotlight. As you see dune2 and ebfd are the only ones highlighted everywhere. Also i need to try out c&c3 when i get chance. The sprites i'll make mostly be 3d rendering in 2d. Whole new sprites. Engine is Gamemaker. Music by me and including the classic ones. Coding's the only pain in the a** . I'll be free after a few months then i have time to sit and code. Now am designing buildings,ui. Writing basic variables and logarithms. Also planning to include editors. :) BOTTOMLINE:It'll eat me up whole.

[Feda]

Dune in 2D is VERY GOOD, no need to make complicated 3D things. You don't even need 2,5 D like TS or something, lots of ppl still love & play all C&C and dune 2D games. :)

Thanks for thinking about my suggestions. Also I can write a whole list of all units & structures with all details for each one. In PM i gave u only a small piece of all of 'em :D I have the whole game in my mind, just needs to be actually implemented. So if u would like a list tell me, I will do it when I have some spare time.

[THE AQIB]

@feda:its 2d but it'll be a 3d rendered image in dune angle cam. you can give me your idea also so that i can better understand the rts factor... ;)

[Feda]

Of course Dune in 2D is very good too and can you send me the small list please ? :P

What small list?

[THE AQIB]

well one idea came through... anyone else??

[Feda]

What you send to AQIB,that small part of list about structures and others( is in last quoted post by me) :D

I made now the whole list with all freakin' units and structures, will upload it if you're interested :) just ask me if you want ^^ Its something I dreamed about in one night LOL, then next day I started to think about it and holy crap.. arranged some crap in my mind and finally found some unit combinations and structures which make the game more like the old C&C style of less units and more unit control. Also, variety & different unit types for each house. I also have tactics wrote on paper. Just hope ppl wont rage me cuz I changed dune on paper, but duh... Its a mod, we can do whatever we want right? :P

[THE AQIB]

yea... thts ryt..

[THE AQIB]

how about unit limit like in warcraft3 or age of empires.

[Feda]

how about unit limit like in warcraft3 or age of empires.

Well my mod stops unit spamming so games can be actually ended without masses of units. No need of limits for that. If you wont remove the unit spamming feature of d2k then maybe that would be a good idea. It's up to you man :) but I told u, without unit spamming it will be more interesting. We already have a unit spam game, dune2000, the original, lets try the non-spamming one :D

Finally its up to the creator, so... bahaha our destiny is in your hands aqib ;)

[THE AQIB]

heh heh... yea im the emperor of this universe...

[X3M]

Food limit!! Finally.

It helps balancing games, and it adds more strategic choices.

There are several choices for you.

- A maximum total or (dune 2 has 25, for structures it's the building place) (Warzone2100 has 150)

- A maximum per unit type or (Warzone2100 has different structure limits, research centre 5, power plants 10, outpost 1 etc.)

- Both maximums are applied. I suggest this.

- Food of 1 for each unit (dune 2) or

- An adjusted food according to strength. (Structures have different sizes in dune 2) (WC3/SC/SC2 applies this to units) I suggest this.

Besides of wind traps, you could build water supplies which act as food for the units.

So, what are your choices?

[THE AQIB]

@x3m:well im trying to remove unit spamming... as 'feda' said we need limit on the armies produced... i thought of putting the unit costs so to make the buying and building balanced... 'feda' also gave me a suggession on it by his own built tech tree.... i can try implementing limits but it might remove the original fun of the game...

[Feda]

Limits are not needed if unit spamming is removed. That just needs slower production and higher costs OR slower money. Indeed unit spamming kills all strategy.. If you need example you can watch some of my youtube vids to see how unit spamming doesnt give you any kind of strategy.

[THE AQIB]

yea i know what it does hence applying they can have high speed or damage or hp. alltogether not a chance except for platinum tanks of each house. they might contain.(platinum tanks =higher lvl tanks,more than spl tanks available in the game at few points but cost like hell.)

[>Quiet Snow<]

I repeat, d2k has excellent balance and ugly implementation. Many people do not understand it.

And C&C are not needed here, because pleasant game. One game is not another game.

No sense to bring all to a common denominator.

Imho

THE AQIB, why in the title "Dune 2000"? After all, the game will be completely different.

How about copyrights?

said we need limit on the armies produced...

:D Look for opportunities, not constraints.

If you make a concept : "less clicks, think more", then you will be really great man.

Game speed and clicks - is killing strategy. We get just mechanical game, where APM is everything.

Whose build order and tactics most sharpen - winner. It's bad, because no opposition...

One lucky rush and "gg", no game on the expansion as a consequence.

[Feda]

And arent we talking about the same thing? To remove unit spamming? Yes that kills tactic. I said myself that limits are not needed if we slow down unit building speed and/or money growing. Also dont give tanks the speed of light and u will see how infantry will become more viable. Trust me i know what i'm talking ;)/>

Dude cmon playing with AI looks balanced but IN THE ACTUAL GAME ordos doesnt stand a chance against an atr player with sonics. I saw what type of settings you like, but ppl dont play those.. We dont play with worms. I do like 3k starting money and 0 units but in the end it will be STILL about unit spam and ordos would STILL not stand a chance against sonics. Need example? See my last FFA match video on youtube.

As its a mod , the creator has the right to change anything he wants and put whatever name he wants. If you dont like it thats it :)/> he's not making a c&c, maybe will just use some units from there. Dune 2000 has no variety. And now staying and thinking 3 years for balanced units... DUH just borrow some that already exist and balance the game. I gave him a list of units and in theory looks balanced. Here it is the time where proper settings are needed and also testing. Remember that when westwood created RA1 they used C&C 95 engine i think, borrowed the units (even dune has the c&c 95 grenadier) , not to mention the flame tanks in all c&c's and tesla tanks in all RA's. No, theres no prob to use some of them if they balance the game. About copyright, both C&C 95 and RA are freeware if thats what you've been asking :D/>

EDIT: Oh i missed the "ugly implementation part" YES u are totally right, in theory its balanced but in practice it isnt. Because of this i cant tell everyone tha d2k is balanced just cuz theoretically it is. You got my point ;)

[X3M]

@>Quiet Snows<

The single player missions are played with few units. Then indeed it looks balanced. I agree on that. And it's fun too.

However, the Sonic Tank (amass that is) is indeed overpowered against the ordos Combat Tanks or any other ordos unit. Don't think you can spam Missile Tanks. They are actually limited by the fact that you can only order 5 at most with the Starport. Atreides>>>Ordos in multi player, it's a fact, I have seen it. The only way to counter is to do a fast rush with quads on all his/her harvesters.

I already have seen that the Deviator also fails in it's usage against Sonic Tanks. And simply driving by with Raiders and hoping the Sonics hurt each other wont work either :(.

@aKaFedaYkin

Limiting building speed, or better yet, income. Does increase tactics. I give you that. But only if 1 of the players decides to attack before players have build-up forces. If not, then everyone is spamming units again, but only at a slower pace. Once all the income is gone (or not). There is a last man standing warfare where the biggest pile of units wins. The only counter to this is also an unit limit that is noticeable. WC3 is such an example. But people don't like that game while I do :(.

The best games are those where you have to build up a task force. Then fight, then rebuild again for the next step.

PS. aKaFedaYkin, could you send me that list as well? And nice video ^^, it proves a point.

[Feda]

Sure I'll send the list in pm next time i turn on the pc. Will also send it to hawker.

And i like the way you stated things. Youre right: make units, fight then rebuild, dont camp and gather fucktons of units. It is indeed something which is up to the players, but for example in C&C 95 spamming tanks is not a viable thing cuz tanks are slow so they dont run over inf in a second. Then inf is very viable, a squad of rocket soldiers (aka troopers) can stop 7 - 8 tanks easy, especially if they are behind walls (walls block tank shots). Thats why its important to mix inf with the tanks. Dune has this too, but in terms of spam, where you just select all shit and press guard/stop without being able to control ur units. Not to mention that light inf are too underrated. Also 2k money is a lot for that game so u dont have income to spam tanks. In dune we start with factory and tanks, only after that barracks, in C&C if the enemy realises u gonna spam tanks he will kill u with infantry. It really works :) not to mention that u dont get 3 factories so easy. So yea reducing income will solve a part of the problem. My opinion at least

Dune players will keep spamming tanks, or try to, in this mod too, so there must be something which prevents this for sure. Thats why i added grenadiers flamethrowers and chem troopers to my list :) just wait for it. Also it depends , but to make inf play a bigger role and actually enable inf rushes we could use smaller maps, but thats to be discussed. Im just glad that aqib listens to us and our suggestions, in my view a succesful mod is the one which takes public opinions and requests. Final decisions are obviously up to the creator :D

[X3M]

Yes indeed, he is doing a good job on that.

And about the infantry crushing. The combat tanks are just a bit to fast if you ask me. Besides, the crushing can be looked at as an anti infantry weapon of 0 range, at least, that's how I balanced it in my games. The faster they are, the more expensive they should be. After all, for each infantry that can be crushed per second should be having the same costs for being shot down by a gun at the same pace. Perhaps the creators thought of that as well with the Ordos Combat tank. But they did not keep in mind that the Ordos would then lack an unit with durability. They should have increased something else in strength to withstand those pesky Sonics (in amass).

Many tweaks to reduce crushing, but still allowing it to be a valid option:

- Slower tanks. But I like fast tanks that crush as well, so option 2 would be.

- Fast tanks are more expensive in a way. But only if you allow them to keep on moving that fast during crushing. The APC from C&C95 seems to be more expensive while not really stronger in combat.

- A tank slows down after crushing. C&C3 does this in a neat way.

- A tank can only crush 1 infantry unit at a time, even though they are stacked? :D C&C3 does this AGAIN in a neat way.

- Infantry automatically dodges. But this does not help against mass tanks like in dune 2000.

[Feda]

I did include APCs in my list. They are fast enough to run over inf, are heavy vehs and cant kill buildings instantly like the d2k tanks do. I just want to make inf more viable cuz it can be alot of fun to use them (at least for me xD ). Not to mention that this thing enables inf rushes and adds 2-3 new tactics.

[THE AQIB]

@quiet snow: i am baising the game on dune 2000. and i aint gonna sell it. if someone like the original dune owners ask me to change name i might. and i guess you never played it onlyn. ordos have very less strength. even the equation is not balanced. ordos lacks missile tanks,any spl missile\attack(like air stryke or death hand), deviators are crap unless you controll them, just think sending the army and controlling the deviator only, survival is naught. my brother blew me to bits tht way in lan, while i played ordos. @to others: excellent discussion. though i'll be visiting rarely i can see more people giving ideas. @x3m: nice suggestion i need to look into the crushing of units. i personally lost my fremen army under a hark combat tank. @to all: again as i heard dune 2000 was just a slice of cheese between to burger patties. no taste yet satisfies the hunger. ;)