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Australia 1850 - WA


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Hi Folks :)

OK I'm New: so about me : I'm A programmer of 30 (sheesh yes 30) yrs experience...I love RRT2, It's mellow and utterly engrossing at the same time...

Anyways:

I'm making a pretty tough Australia map atm. It starts in 1850, and you only have access to Western Australia. Rights to e.g. Victoria are very expensive. Basically you have to start in Perth, and Supply the city like mad. I've adjusted the economy to a realistic 1850 lvl ...many, many (literally)one horse towns,+ Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane/Adelaide and Perth.

But then all you get is Perth.

Played half a dozen trials, gave up in half of them. BUT when you take a one house town, and in 20 yrs, turn it into a town, its magical.

So anyways mark II, If anyones interested, I'll upload it...no victory conditions atm, just surviving is quite good.

EDIT:- Map enclosed (27th Dec 2011 - 2 minor corrections made) Australia - 1850 WA.zip

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Hi Drewski,

Please do upload it, I'd love to see it! But actually, something else you said was intriguing as well:

OK I'm New: so about me : I'm A programmer of 30 (sheesh yes 30) yrs experience...I love RRT2, It's mellow and utterly engrossing at the same time...

You are a programmer? A computer programmer? I just have to ask... On another thread, some of us were visiting about what it would take to reverse-engineer the game, or to come up with a new RRTII that fixes things and brings items on our 'wish list' for the game. One visitor to the forum even tried finding out who owns the source code for the game, and whether or not someone could get their hands on it. The discussion was at this link: http://forum.dune2k....ing-congestion/ (It starts towards the lower part of the first page)

I don't know what you programmed for thirty years (which is about a 'hundred' years more programming experience than I have), but if you were capable of decoding RRTII, I have a feeling you'd have quite a few people on here that would consider you some kind of hero. :) Is that something you'd be up for?

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Hi Drewski,

Please do upload it, I'd love to see it! But actually, something else you said was intriguing as well:

You are a programmer? A computer programmer? I just have to ask... On another thread, some of us were visiting about what it would take to reverse-engineer the game, or to come up with a new RRTII that fixes things and brings items on our 'wish list' for the game. One visitor to the forum even tried finding out who owns the source code for the game, and whether or not someone could get their hands on it. The discussion was at this link: http://forum.dune2k....ing-congestion/ (It starts towards the lower part of the first page)

I don't know what you programmed for thirty years (which is about a 'hundred' years more programming experience than I have), but if you were capable of decoding RRTII, I have a feeling you'd have quite a few people on here that would consider you some kind of hero. :) Is that something you'd be up for?

Re:The Australia Map, I'm still trying to perfect a few things:- mainly trying to help the ai out a bit, but I think that's beyond the old ai engine. What I mean by this, is that all the ai ever runs successfully, is passengers. Any cargo actually reaching a "proper" destination, and producing an end product (e.g.) Produce becoming Alcohol, is just a happy accident on its part. It needs several towns and cities to run to for any degree of success, Unfortunately the maps I've been tinkering with, I like to start as early as historically sensible, and tweak population Lvls (via the Economy settings) to a "proper" lvl. This makes it really tough for the player initially (the one house "towns" will grow in a decade or two if their industry is supplied), but the ai generally refuses to expand. The ai gets cash for shifting just about anything to anywhere, so they don't go broke, they just slowly stagnate.

Ho Hum.

I'll upload that map at the weekend. I'm also working on a Texas 1836 Independence map which starts out with tiny villages everywhere, and an 1830 South America Map similarly adjusted, with also a logical pass from Rio to Sao Paulo that doesn't go over 3.5 grade . The base S America map is impossible for the ai, it tries to build a straight line 12% route between the 2 cities, nothing every gets there and it goes bust...

I was reading the discussions on the reverse engineering....but believe me, somrthing like that is a mammoth undertaking, without any source code, you're basically re-writing/coding it from scratch. I mod for various games on the net, e.g. The Total War Series, The Civ series, and even doing them for the love of the game, it can sometimes become like a job you don't want to go to ;)....I'll say that I'll help out, if a project gets started, how's that? :)

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Do you mean moderate or modify? We have a couple threads about modding RT2:

Old modding thread

Newer modding thread

Note: The old thread originated on the old forum (and then was moved), so it may be somewhat mangled.

Thanks for the info.

I mean Mod in the sense of Modify. I have enough patience to tinker with various code bases, but not enough to moderate forum threads (while admiring those that do, especially on busy forums).

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You sure aren't kidding -- that was tough! And I had it on the easy setting, to boot. I tried valiantly, but couldn't swing it... and I had a beautiful railroad, too... it just didn't earn enough dough to keep afloat.

Thanks for the feedback :)

I was playing the map last night, and by 1875, I'd grown 2 villages to towns (the key- giving you more places to deliver food/goods/pax/mail too) and am steadily progressing Eastwards with a good profit. I'd set up the ports to be especially useful, so the random roll up of the map is quite influencial on how tough the game is; having a port pop up in the first 20 yrs is a godsend.

I'd also bankrupted 3 of my 4 ai opponents :D (love doing this). I still fail about 50% of the time on this map though, but i like it to be tough.(On expert settings btw)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Drewski -- I tried it again, and this time I managed to survive, at least into the early 1900s. I was more conservative this time and didn't buy so heavily on margin to get the majority ownership, nor borrow so much in the company to expand quickly. I was doing great for a while, but now the company seems a little 'sluggish.' Some parts of this are maddening :unsure: -- I'm certainly not a great player by any stretch of the imagination, but I look at the huge railroad I've built, and the profits over the years, and then I look at the two-bit railroads of my 'competitors.' None of them have expanded beyond their original route between two towns, yet one tycoon has just as much wealth as I do. I'm not sure how the math works on that, but at least I survived... which appears to have been one of your objectives.

I'd like to upload the saved game file so you can see what I did (if you care :), of course), and what a mess my track looks like, but I don't know how to find the saved game file. It seems like it should be in this folder: C:Program FilesRailroad Tycoon II - Platinumgames, but I don't see it in there. Does the game store it some place else?

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Just open like you are going to start a new game; Then, open the top folder (single player) then click on Load scenario or load campaign if it is a campaign map. you will see every game saved. Choose the saved game you want.

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Assuming you installed RRT2 only once, then your saved games should be there, which is the games folder under the folder containing the executable. If you aren't sure, then if you're using a desktop shortcut, its properties will tell you where its exe is.

If you aren't seeing the saved games, then windows might be hiding some files from you. Check your explorer options to be sure that all files and extensions are being displayed. Saved games should have the GM2 extension and run maybe 2-10 meg.

If you are using the Steam version of the game, then there's a chance that it's doing something different (like using the "application data" folder hierarchy).

If you want to share, "send" the GM2 file to a zipped (archive) "folder" to be uploaded.

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Just open like you are going to start a new game; Then, open the top folder (single player) then click on Load scenario or load campaign if it is a campaign map. you will see every game saved. Choose the saved game you want.

Thanks for giving me a smile, Gwizz. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I do know how to load saved games within RRT2! :) I just didn't know how to find it on my hard drive.

Assuming you installed RRT2 only once, then your saved games should be there, which is the games folder under the folder containing the executable. If you aren't sure, then if you're using a desktop shortcut, its properties will tell you where its exe is.

It was installed just once, but usually I start the game up with the CD. When I pop it in, it brings up a dialogue box, and I start it from there. If I start it with a shortcut instead, then the files will properly go to the place where the executable is? That would have made them easier to find.

If you aren't seeing the saved games, then windows might be hiding some files from you. Check your explorer options to be sure that all files and extensions are being displayed. Saved games should have the GM2 extension and run maybe 2-10 meg.

You're right, Windows was hiding them from me. I did a search for the GM2 extension (thanks!), and found them in this folder:

C:\Users\Akuenzi\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Railroad Tycoon II - Platinum\games

I wouldn't have guessed that they would be buried in there!

If you are using the Steam version of the game, then there's a chance that it's doing something different (like using the "application data" folder hierarchy).

If you want to share, "send" the GM2 file to a zipped (archive) "folder" to be uploaded.

Okay. It's been zipped and attached (hopefully). I don't remember what year I'm in, but I think it's around 1910, give or take. I'm not sure I'll take it much further, but I would be interested in anybody's critique of it. I did what I could to survive, but the track doesn't look pretty. Like I said above, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I'd be willing to learn what I might do differently to have a better rail network, etc. If anyone takes time to look at it, what would you do differently?

West_Aussie.zip

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Thanks for giving me a smile, Gwizz. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I do know how to load saved games within RRT2! :) I just didn't know how to find it on my hard drive.

It was installed just once, but usually I start the game up with the CD. When I pop it in, it brings up a dialogue box, and I start it from there. If I start it with a shortcut instead, then the files will properly go to the place where the executable is? That would have made them easier to find.

You're right, Windows was hiding them from me. I did a search for the GM2 extension (thanks!), and found them in this folder:

C:\Users\Akuenzi\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Railroad Tycoon II - Platinum\games

I wouldn't have guessed that they would be buried in there!

Okay. It's been zipped and attached (hopefully). I don't remember what year I'm in, but I think it's around 1910, give or take. I'm not sure I'll take it much further, but I would be interested in anybody's critique of it. I did what I could to survive, but the track doesn't look pretty. Like I said above, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I'd be willing to learn what I might do differently to have a better rail network, etc. If anyone takes time to look at it, what would you do differently?

Glad you had another go :)

I'll be pleased to have a look at your game, but maybe tomorrow, as too much Christmas Spirit yesterday (literally) is probably going to confine me to the sofa today ;)

Oh, And Merry Christmas to all ~!

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I've just looked at your save. You've built an impressive RR. The no-disconnected-track restriction would drive me nuts -- You're lucky the map is much flatter than the Aussie map I'm used to. I wonder if there are any techniques for sculpting terrain using connected track. (If there are, then I am afraid to ask what they cost!)

You should now have a good idea where the map's long-distance money-making routes are. If you play the scenario again, you should have those in mind even as you're laying your early track. As soon as you can afford to, you should lay what is part of your future "mainline" plus a spur rather than laying the shortest route between two points. Also, whenever putting down a stretch, look beyond it to see what obstacles might be in the way of a future expansion. Such foresight may push your lay-line over a square or two, saving you from twists and turns later on.

PS: The tip of the Swan River is disjointed. The next edition of this map should connect or delete that.

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I've just looked at your save. You've built an impressive RR. The no-disconnected-track restriction would drive me nuts -- You're lucky the map is much flatter than the Aussie map I'm used to. I wonder if there are any techniques for sculpting terrain using connected track. (If there are, then I am afraid to ask what they cost!)

Yes -- I liked my railroad, which is pretty much transcontinental. I still wonder how my competitors could accumulate so much wealth with so little... but maybe it's simply because they started in a much better position than I did, didn't have to buy rights to get into the good areas, etc. Playing this map was certainly like starting a railroad on a shoestring and trying to hang on.

I didn't particularly like the no-disconnected-track restriction either, but hey -- it was Drewski's map, so I figured I'd play by his rules. :) I didn't do much terrain sculpting, either, but I think the grades are fairly reasonable for the most part. And you're right -- it did seem flatter than I was expecting, thankfully. If it wasn't, I'd probably still be trying and going broke!

You should now have a good idea where the map's long-distance money-making routes are. If you play the scenario again, you should have those in mind even as you're laying your early track. As soon as you can afford to, you should lay what is part of your future "mainline" plus a spur rather than laying the shortest route between two points. Also, whenever putting down a stretch, look beyond it to see what obstacles might be in the way of a future expansion. Such foresight may push your lay-line over a square or two, saving you from twists and turns later on.

Well, I 'kind-of' have an idea as to the long-distance money-making routes, but the scenario is different every time it's opened as to industry-placement, so each time sort of starts a guy back at square one. I started in the same city in both attempts, just as Drewski suggested, and then branched out. The one nice thing about this map, is that it forces a person to haul freight early on, and to build the railroad from that perspective, rather than relying on passengers. So, once I get that little notification that passenger service is going down, the rail line isn't likely to be impacted that heavily since it's already very freight-dependent.

As for your comments on mainlines and spurs, I've certainly got a number of things to learn on that. I've tried all sorts of configurations in the games I've played, and the thing I keep coming down to is to have more and more dedicated lines (simply between two stations or a small group of stations), where ever possible. With the mainline and spur set-up, it seems I'll invariably have trains of different speeds and sizes fighting for space, and it just becomes a gnarled up mess. If I have dedicated lines, the trains seem to move more freely, and don't get in one another's way... but it's also more expensive, especially in a scenario like this where the track can't be disconnected.

Either way, I appreciate your tips. Drewski, I'd enjoy reading yours as well. I think much of the time I've enjoyed Railroad Tycoon for the business aspect. Playing games on the stock market, and opening multiple companies are always a kick. Your scenario forced me to try to actually run a railroad instead of playing games with "other peoples' money." Thanks!

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The no-disconnected-track restriction would drive me nuts -- You're lucky the map is much flatter than the Aussie map I'm used to. I wonder if there are any techniques for sculpting terrain using connected track. (If there are, then I am afraid to ask what they cost!)

PS: The tip of the Swan River is disjointed. The next edition of this map should connect or delete that.

You can lower grades by laying small chunks of track at 45 degrees to the main line, then delete them, but it's a pain to do.

While the main Australia map is slightly more accurate (in some aspects) topographically than mine (in the main, the Blue Mts West of Sydney are further away on my map than in reality, this is done to stop virtually unclimbable grades, that don't really exist irl), I refined a lot of terrain, and slightly adapted some for gameplay's sake.

Thanks for the tip!, I've corrected that, and also spelled `Rawlinna` correctly this time ???

Yes -- I liked my railroad, which is pretty much transcontinental. I still wonder how my competitors could accumulate so much wealth with so little... but maybe it's simply because they started in a much better position than I did, didn't have to buy rights to get into the good areas, etc. Playing this map was certainly like starting a railroad on a shoestring and trying to hang on.

I didn't particularly like the no-disconnected-track restriction either, but hey -- it was Drewski's map, so I figured I'd play by his rules. :) I didn't do much terrain sculpting, either, but I think the grades are fairly reasonable for the most part. And you're right -- it did seem flatter than I was expecting, thankfully. If it wasn't, I'd probably still be trying and going broke!

Well, I 'kind-of' have an idea as to the long-distance money-making routes, but the scenario is different every time it's opened as to industry-placement, so each time sort of starts a guy back at square one. I started in the same city in both attempts, just as Drewski suggested, and then branched out. The one nice thing about this map, is that it forces a person to haul freight early on, and to build the railroad from that perspective, rather than relying on passengers. So, once I get that little notification that passenger service is going down, the rail line isn't likely to be impacted that heavily since it's already very freight-dependent.

As for your comments on mainlines and spurs, I've certainly got a number of things to learn on that. I've tried all sorts of configurations in the games I've played, and the thing I keep coming down to is to have more and more dedicated lines (simply between two stations or a small group of stations), where ever possible. With the mainline and spur set-up, it seems I'll invariably have trains of different speeds and sizes fighting for space, and it just becomes a gnarled up mess. If I have dedicated lines, the trains seem to move more freely, and don't get in one another's way... but it's also more expensive, especially in a scenario like this where the track can't be disconnected.

Either way, I appreciate your tips. Drewski, I'd enjoy reading yours as well. I think much of the time I've enjoyed Railroad Tycoon for the business aspect. Playing games on the stock market, and opening multiple companies are always a kick. Your scenario forced me to try to actually run a railroad instead of playing games with "other peoples' money." Thanks!

No worries 8) , Glad you enjoyed it. There's different ways of playing of course . I tend to buy every industry I supply, then even overserve the industries. This seems to help villages grow to towns a little quicker. I also tend to try to have VERY long straight lines of track; in this way gradients have less effect (trains only really suffer if they have to take turns on gradients). You track layout was very organic, you could tell it literally "grew" a little at the time.

As Jeff said, and I agree, it's sort of like a small chess game with track layout. When I lay track, and place a station, I'm looking at where the track will go next, unless that station happens to be a complete terminus,e.g. on the tip of a continent. It's possibly the trickiest part of RRT2. Slight criticisms( well you did ask ;))- I thought that you had possibly taken on too much industry at once, and goods were sitting around and piling up, and also had a lot of `low milage` track that you were paying for. Still, you were very unlucky in getting NO ports anywhere, I think you did a great job :)

If you're interested, here's my map from 1900. I started playing it before Christmas, (and decided to relax with a few beers, and then pay my Tycoon all the profits for a good 10 yrs, while enjoying watching the trains go round and round :D )....played for a couple of hours before typing this and I'm as far as Adelaide...with around a $2-3M annual profit....I love my absolutely ridiculous straight line across Australia, plus I've just started exporting Alcohol and refining my own oil......well have a look :)

P.S. The only reason I enforced the "no connected track option" was to force the player to actually railroad trans-continentally. In other words, no getting a bit of a bankroll, then buying rights and running a seperate track between say Melbourne and Adelaide (which is far too easy..). If playing `on honor` and just using disconnected track for flattening purposes then I'd say remove it..

WA.zip

P.P.S. Forgot to add, you can make a silly amount of money from The Melbourne/Perth or Adelaide/Perth Expresses...I put 2 for each route -one starting from each city, with a dining car- and a dedicated mail train. They're not regular, but they're huge cash cows when they arrive

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No worries 8) , Glad you enjoyed it. There's different ways of playing of course . I tend to buy every industry I supply, then even overserve the industries. This seems to help villages grow to towns a little quicker. I also tend to try to have VERY long straight lines of track; in this way gradients have less effect (trains only really suffer if they have to take turns on gradients). You track layout was very organic, you could tell it literally "grew" a little at the time.

Organic? You're probably being much kinder than you'd need to be. I call it 'spaghetti' and 'a mess.' But you're absolutely right -- it did literally grow a little at a time. When I could afford it, I'd expand. Then I'd wait a little and look for my next 'opportunity.' I guess it worked, and I 'survived,' but that wasn't the smartest way to plan for the future. Your rail network was much more succinct and tight... and was worth a whole lot more than mine in terms of market capitalization. I can learn a lot by studying your rail network!

Maybe this is a question for the general board rather than the map section, but I couldn't help but notice how straight your lines were. I guess I've tended to try to make the distance between two points as short as possible when I could. You didn't do this. You also chose straightness with heavier grades in some instances, rather than lighter grades and more bends in the line. It's perhaps a silly question, but is it generally better to do this (ie, fewer bends in the track) than not?

As Jeff said, and I agree, it's sort of like a small chess game with track layout. When I lay track, and place a station, I'm looking at where the track will go next, unless that station happens to be a complete terminus,e.g. on the tip of a continent. It's possibly the trickiest part of RRT2. Slight criticisms( well you did ask ;))- I thought that you had possibly taken on too much industry at once, and goods were sitting around and piling up, and also had a lot of `low milage` track that you were paying for. Still, you were very unlucky in getting NO ports anywhere, I think you did a great job :)

I kept wondering when my port would show up, but alas, I didn't see one until I expanded into the eastern parts of the map... as a consequence, my rail men had to shovel more sheep and cattle 'poo' than they might have preferred, but such is life.

If you're interested, here's my map from 1900. I started playing it before Christmas, (and decided to relax with a few beers, and then pay my Tycoon all the profits for a good 10 yrs, while enjoying watching the trains go round and round :D )....played for a couple of hours before typing this and I'm as far as Adelaide...with around a $2-3M annual profit....I love my absolutely ridiculous straight line across Australia, plus I've just started exporting Alcohol and refining my own oil......well have a look :)

Thanks for posting it. Like I said above, I'm learning things from it. :)

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Maybe this is a question for the general board rather than the map section, but I couldn't help but notice how straight your lines were. I guess I've tended to try to make the distance between two points as short as possible when I could. You didn't do this. You also chose straightness with heavier grades in some instances, rather than lighter grades and more bends in the line. It's perhaps a silly question, but is it generally better to do this (ie, fewer bends in the track) than not?

Well in the early days, everything has pretty terrible acceleration. I'm sure you've noticed how much the trains slow down when they make almost any kind of turn. By keeping the routes straighter, but maybe a bit further, the trains do tend to get there quicker. They also get up to a good speed more quickly on a straight stretch. I of course try to keep all gradients `green`, but you'll notice that on a long straight, where a train has already got a up head of steam, a smallish portion of 2 -2.5% won't slow it down much (unless it's overloaded in the first place). I personally aim for everything under 3%, unless its absolutely unavoidable (my current railroad on that map, has one single grid tile higher than that: a 3.5%). Also, trains apparently have a much higher breakdown chance on bends (the game acts like they are carrying a much heavier load) .

I haven't looked into the exact mathematics behind it, maybe Jeff knows a bit more.

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As for your comments on mainlines and spurs, I've certainly got a number of things to learn on that. I've tried all sorts of configurations in the games I've played, and the thing I keep coming down to is to have more and more dedicated lines (simply between two stations or a small group of stations), where ever possible. With the mainline and spur set-up, it seems I'll invariably have trains of different speeds and sizes fighting for space, and it just becomes a gnarled up mess. If I have dedicated lines, the trains seem to move more freely, and don't get in one another's way... but it's also more expensive, especially in a scenario like this where the track can't be disconnected.

Try a combination of both: Feed your city industries with dedicated, slow-freight short-lines; carry transcontinental pax, mail and fast freight via streamlined pipes with long, straight sections.

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The only reason I enforced the "no connected track option" was to force the player to actually railroad trans-continentally. In other words, no getting a bit of a bankroll, then buying rights and running a separate track between say Melbourne and Adelaide (which is far too easy..). If playing `on honor` and just using disconnected track for flattening purposes then I'd say remove it.

There's a trigger function to detect connection from area to area or from area to city. You might be able to use that to enforce the kind of cross-country building you want, especially if you get creative with small "sub" territories that map to your visible territories.

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I guess I've tended to try to make the distance between two points as short as possible when I could. You didn't do this. You also chose straightness with heavier grades in some instances, rather than lighter grades and more bends in the line. It's perhaps a silly question, but is it generally better to do this (ie, fewer bends in the track) than not?

Each bend in a track acts as +2% grade (or exactly 2% grade on level track or going downhill). Consequently, when I build up slopes, I try to level off my turn(s), sort of like landings between flights of stairs.

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trains apparently have a much higher breakdown chance on bends (the game acts like they are carrying a much heavier load) .

Breakdown chance goes up with speed and grade. Acting like +2% to any grade, a turn is a hazard, especially at full speed.

I've also noticed some breakdowns occurring at the very moment when a train enters a turn or encounters another train. There may be a hazard check at these times, or it may be a coincidence (the check might be performed at all cell boundaries regardless).

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Thanks for all the info Jeff :)

I thought about using the event manager, but since I don't have any defined goals on that map, will probably leave significant `eventing` to my next map , when I've researched the possibilities more further- that was my first effort with RRt2 after all..

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Thanks for all the info Jeff :)

I thought about using the event manager, but since I don't have any defined goals on that map, will probably leave significant `eventing` to my next map , when I've researched the possibilities more further- that was my first effort with RRt2 after all..

I like this map - a lot! :)

Downloaded it last night and have spent most of my morning on it and am addicted. And I love the fact that it is open-ended without defined goals. I finally pulled myself away to write this and get some errands run upon achieving the growth of my second town into one with a full-range of demand - 1867, I think it was.

I'm playing at expert 177% and have had no problem staying profitable, but the growth is slow, isn't it? Makes it feel all the better when achieved and, again, I love that I'm not working against the clock. I think I actually make better progress that way than with the all too familiar timed medal scenario.

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I like this map - a lot! :)

Downloaded it last night and have spent most of my morning on it and am addicted. And I love the fact that it is open-ended without defined goals. I finally pulled myself away to write this and get some errands run upon achieving the growth of my second town into one with a full-range of demand - 1867, I think it was.

I'm playing at expert 177% and have had no problem staying profitable, but the growth is slow, isn't it? Makes it feel all the better when achieved and, again, I love that I'm not working against the clock. I think I actually make better progress that way than with the all too familiar timed medal scenario.

Glad your enjoying it :)
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