Blind Loyalty?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

We all would look like the Ordos or Harkonnen for example.

Brutally killing everybody on sight, if the Sergeant order us.

Talking about bloodshed. What will happen if the humans continue to massacre eachother.

Maybe there will be a alien invasion that we "can" resist and possibly win.

But how can the human's defend themselves if they slaughter their own brothers just for a few scrolls of bucks and power.

And as for the Knife, the sword is always the most lethal weapon in close combat.

For example. Some guy has a gun in his hand, and his oponent has a Katana. The one with the gun pulls his gun up, maybe shoot the other guy in the knee pad's. But before he can move, his head or limb's is already sliced off in a instant.

The hand is quicker then the eye and bullet. *grin*  ;D

[nampigai]

I still believe that you have to think yourself, if you just follow blindly I don't think it's right. I'm not saying that you can't help people in africa, I just think that we should think, otherwise you will only see the good thing.

Example we have something called TWIND in Denmark infact it's world wide. they have an organisation "helping" african people by selling clothe and using money on africans and sending second hand clothes. However recently news shows that the second hand clothes are being sold in africa to high prices so that they will earn as many money as possible, nothing in this world is black and white, we have to see all aspects ;)

[gryphon]

"We all would look like the Ordos or Harkonnen for example.

Brutally killing everybody on sight, if the Sergeant order us."

I've lost you, when whould this be ?

"But how can the human's defend themselves if they slaughter their own brothers just for a few scrolls of bucks and power."

Why would they slaughter there brothers ? [ related to those atomic weapons that is ]

And for the rest, the "knife theory" is not based just on a knife, it's called that way and is an example.

But according to you we should bann all possible weapons from the Earth ? All knives, all swords, all explosieve or poisones material like salt, amonia, gunpowder don't forget baseballbets and electricety .. . .and so on. . .just because there is a way it can possibly be used as a weapon ?

I agree with you on that NaMpIgAi, but I think I've just IM'ed that to you ;)

You posted it while I IM'ed it.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Gryphon your not making any sense with the quotes. Clarify yourself more, if you don't mind.

[Acriku]

No weapon is the best in combat. It's how you use it, since you stated one example to convince yourself you are right, how about an example contradicting you? A guy already has his gun aimed (why it's just hanging down his side in your example just goes to show you understate everything you argue against and try whatever you can to prove your "point"), another guy has his sword out, boom boom boom goes the hand gun, blam goes the body on the floor, and thwing goes the sword on the floor.

So you want to stop war so we can fight these aliens and have peace? Stand in line, there is only a few hundred million others actively trying.

And how does anyone know they are civilians? Let's say the soldier given the order says no and puts down his weapon, and then the 3 civilians take out guns from underneath their shirts and shoot the whole group? The soldier doesn't have any information on what they are, so he must follow it blindly.

And english isn't gryphon's first language, so let it be.

[gryphon]

Sorry, to many typo's ?

I've already IM'ed Ordos-suspero to clearefy so mayby my comment from above isn't nessecary but we'll figure that out as the IM-ing continues, and ofcourse we'll let you know.

:)

And althought I strongly apose the military being used against civilinas of it's own country, in a time of ware the enemy might verry well be a civilian of another country.

[Anathema]

So it doesn't matter if a soldier doesn't follow common sense as long as it follows blindly? Don't think so. What is it good for? If the order is justified, then soldiers will execute the order. Blindly following orders only causes trouble and grief.

I agree that it is useless to ban all weapons- but that is not entirely related to soldiers. You said that no weapon is by nature bad. Yet do atomics help people in Africa? They only serve as weapons.

[Acriku]

Common sense doesn't help in the situation if you don't know whether or not they are civilians or soldiers cowardly dressed as civilians. The soldier doesn't know, and must act with what he has, and would probably shoot the pronounced enemy, but that is very rare to happen in US military, and I don't know what other countries do with their soldiers. Being told to go into a restaurant and blow it up with people eating inside is an order to be questioned, and thinks like that.

[nampigai]

As for the soldiers part I know this sound stupid but you are not to shoot at civilians, you should stop them check them for weapons and ID but that's the farest you must go, if they really are soldier they are breaking the rules of war too, but I know many partisans do this so as I said this sound stupid, but it's a duty and you can be held up for it.

[gryphon]

I know, it's a strange double thing.

And don't forget other nations, other parts of the world have other rules of war.

I war, the only true enemy  .. ... .

"Yet do atomics help people in Africa? They only serve as weapons."

What if they would serve as a weapon to help the people in Africa ?

[Anathema]

I suppose atomics could serve to destroy an evil nations army...or something like that.

If a soldier stroms into a house, finds a woman and a couple of kids, should he shoot them because his superior says they "might" be terrorists?

[Acriku]

That would be breaking the Geneva Treaty and thus the soldier can take the officer's command and dismiss the order. But in war you tend to feel family with your commander and fellow soldiers, so that might affect your opinion.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

The Arabians/Russians doesn't seem to follow the Geneva treaty? Or is it me.

Very amusing that they are trying to make rules in war and still its getting violated by almost every country.

" Don't shoot paratroopers. "

I also doubt other country's, care about this part of the treaty.

[nampigai]

oofcourse they don't but it's alway the looser who get blamed afterwards, after 1 WW the  Germany and Austria-Hungary were blamed and was to pay huge fines this imo was one of the things that led to the 2ww

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

After 2 WW they had too pay too. Still pay for people that suffered becouse of holocaust. BUt in this point this is right, they (we) should. Paying becouse you lost is only winners decidion: you lost so you will pay becoue we won and we don`t must .

[Acriku]

It was a fact that it lead to WW2, it was too harsh and Germans feared they would be taken over by the  Communists, so Hitler comes in blah blah does this does that.

And after WW2, Japan gave back colonies, etc, and WW1 and 2 Germany gave back territories.

Sucks to lose.

[Anathema]

Another thing worth mentioning is that German generals who ordered pilots to execute terror bombardments on cities were severely punished, whereas Allied generals who ordered pilots to bomb cities received medals and a pad on the back.

[gryphon]

To a post a while back of Earthnuker.

"should he shoot them because his superior says they "might" be terrorists?"

No, because his superior KNOWS they are terrorist / militia. Not because their superiors thinks something. You can not simply dismiss the fact that there also has to be a stronger control of the superior opfficers. Not the [ in my opinion ] lack of insight with a lot of people making the important disissions. Usually based on economisc, opinion and mayby to stay in favour and get re-elected.

So then the soldier can blindly trust his superiors because their actions are based on the best insight and judgment they can make. And not like it is now, "we need the oil so keep the country stable in our favour and send in the military .. . "

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

Another thing worth mentioning is that German generals who ordered pilots to execute terror bombardments on cities were severely punished, whereas Allied generals who ordered pilots to bomb cities received medals and a pad on the back.

Now it happens too very often. And bombs of USA explode on eg China ambasade. And USA still are those "peacemakers".

[Anathema]

USA only guards its own interests. There are countless of examples.

Another thing: the USA keeps mouring the losses they suffer during war (Afghanistan, Vietnam) but do they ever mention that the enemy suffers over a hundred times as much losses? NO! A rogue bomb lands in a residential neighbourhood, 200 people die and a single American soldier who happened to be there and HIS life is mourned by the USA- not the civilians that were killed.

[gryphon]

Don't forget the number of Amerikans killed and equipment destroyd by .. Amerikans ;D

And then the amount of bombs that didn't detonate, detonated wrong, on the wrong place etc. back in "operation Desert Strom". Report released about 2 years ago have . .. verry nice insights.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Yes, i am sure. *Coughs*

I wonder how that can happen. *Looks up at the message above.*

America has his own interests huh? That's why they are trying to involve themselves in every country's business.

Bush would say " Listen to us! Or die! " that would be the so called America response.

( I don't have a problem against the American's. Just Bush and the politic. )

[gryphon]

I liked his father, former president Bush. And also think that ons in a while it is good that one man, group or nation stand up and say "now it has been enough". So that's why I do support him [ the Americans at the moment ], but as you might have guessed, some parts of the politics they are adressing now are quite odd and against my own opinions.

[nampigai]

I believe that Bush is the most incompetent man ever to have set foot in the white house, just look at him and you'll see that he is fit for nothing more than bringing out papers on sunday mornings.

[gryphon]

Justified or not but he did bring hope and keep the poeple calm on sept 11 and the days after that, mayby just a few days, but at least not a minor job in my opinion. He could simply have unleased Hell on the Arab country's.