About the new books

[Lawliet]

Ok, i was reading on wikipedia about Jessica Atreides and i found this :

I thought : "What the hell? Gaius Helen Mohiam was NOT Jessica's mother!"

Then i read in the same article this :

"In the Prelude to Dune series, it is revealed that Jessica's mother is in fact Mohiam; according to the authors, this fact was pulled directly from Frank Herbert's working notes for the original Dune series.

Ok, if that was the case, it was just a working note. In the original novels by Frank Herbert it doesn't say anywhere that Mohiam was Jessica's mother. I guess this means he eventually did not like the idea and ditched it.

So, is that really the idea of writing of Brian and Kevin? To use a ditched working note from the original author? I haven't read any of the Brian and Kevin books so i don't know if they're worth reading, but after this i'm not very enthusiastic about it. To me, anything not written by Frank Herbert never happened in the duniverse, and i don't consider it canon.

So, i ask only to those who read any of the Brian and Kevin novels : how many more of this stuff are in their books? Do they at least make sense? Are they worth reading?

[SandChigger]

The books are full of intentional changes (Paul born on Kaitain, Piter de Vries a ghola, Ix ruled by a House Major, etc, etc) and mistakes or misreadings, but they've only attributed only a few of them specifically to things from FH's notes.

Mohiam being Jessica's mother is one. Jessica being sent to Leto (rather than him sending his agents to the BG to acquire her) is another: evidently FH wrote a scene about Jessica and Leto's first meeting FOR THE LYNCH MOVIE and The Hack & BoBo found it and thought IT WAS SO GOOD they just had to add it to House Harkonnen.

They also claim that they found a note connecting the old couple from Chapterhouse with the Butlerian Jihad in some way, and that's their excuse for making Marty & Daniel Erasmus & Omnius in human drag.

KJA's newest "thing" seems to be blaming Frank Herbert for the constraints he placed upon them in writing Hunters and Sandworms with that pesky outline.

If you enjoy BAD writing and plots that will make absolutely no sense in terms of what you know from the original books, by all means dive right in! :)

(Also, according to an answer relayed through Byron over on Dune Novels, the first epigraph in House Corrino (about the tilt of the axis of Arrakis) is also taken directly from FH's notes. This doesn't adversely affect anything in the original stories.)

[Dante]

The way I heard it, Jessica's mother is refered to in Children of Dune as a woman called Tanidia Nerus: "It'll be in their breeding records: Jessica out of Tanidia Nerus by the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen."

In the Encyclopaedia, however, it is written that Tanidia Nerus was a codename for Mohiam. I think. In any case, this is supposed to be one of the parts of the book that Frank Herbert disliked (possibly because it was an idea that he rejected?), and lo and behold, it's adopted into the prequels. Surprise surprise.

[Lord J]

I don't know, I kind of liked the House books, but the Butlerian Jihad books were just too much. Really though, the Brian and Kevin books that I've read are basically fluff. There is nothing deeper or interesting about them other than from the soap opera perspective. There are no hidden messages (that I saw, anyway) or even themes, really. In the FH original series, one of the main aspects that makes it re-readable is that it is a fair analysis of what the social sciences will look like in thousands of years. The prequels, though, are basically, "what happened before Dune?" and I haven't managed to scrape together enough caring to read the sequels.

Chigger should know, though. I think he reads them just to post how crappy they are. ;)

[athanasios]

If you didn't find any deeper in them then read them again. But IMO they are bloated too much and it doesn't worth the effort. ;-)

[SandChigger]

Chigger should know, though. I think he reads them just to post how crappy they are. ;)

I consider it a vocation, a sacred calling!

AlhamdulisSani!

[ErasOmnius]

I must say that Chigger does relentlessly keep the ball rolling, which is good. Of course Brian and Kevin self-execute themselves with books such as Winds of Dune.

[MrFlibble]

I don't know, I kind of liked the House books, but the Butlerian Jihad books were just too much. Really though, the Brian and Kevin books that I've read are basically fluff. There is nothing deeper or interesting about them other than from the soap opera perspective.

That alone isn't the problem IMO. It's the abundance of mistakes, both rough and subtle, and that general lack of understanding and/or respect of the originals that makes McDune books a perpetual fail.

[ErasOmnius]

If only Brian could say that the books are NOT based on notes. He should just simply say that it's his version.

[SandChigger]

I must say that Chigger does relentlessly keep the ball rolling, which is good. Of course Brian and Kevin self-execute themselves with books such as Winds of Dune.

I prefer to look at it as "keeping the muck flying", but that's just me! :)

And if you think Jessica's Winds was bad, this crapfest they're working on now is going to be several times more fecal. That's why I've taken to referring to it as The Shi**erhood of Dune!

And, seriously, at this point does it matter what statements Brian Herbert makes or doesn't make? They've already admitted in several interviews that they have added their own ideas and material. But I'm sure they've pilfered a few ideas from FH's notes and materials, just as they used various quotes from the original books as epigraphs in the McDune ones.

So it would probably be just as untrue for Brian to say that the books weren't based on FH notes & materials AT ALL as it is dishonest for them to IMPLY (as they do & have done) that a great deal of the books are based on them. It's pretty obvious that most of McDune is stuff that came flooding out of KJA's backside when he was inspired by a heavy meal (or two) and a couple of "growlers".

At this point, does anyone believe anything any of them say?

[athanasios]

It smells too bad in here and it is not the damn rotten books.