disillusioned anyone?

[freeman]

I've read all of the original Dune novels as well as the House and Legends trilogies. The original Dune is of course the best and most popular of the lot by far, an excellent example of soft science fiction. The subsequent FH sequels were still good though God Emperor was an absolute chore to get through.

I treated the House series as the reader's version of popcorn entertainment. Suffice to say I was just happy to get back into the Dune universe. I didn't have high expectations so I was never hugely disappointed. Indeed, I expected the quality to improve in the future as BH and KJA settled into writing in the "duniverse"

Then the Legends trilogy came along. Now, when I picked up Butlerian Jihad I tried to look on the bright side because pretty early on it became apparent that the style had not improved at all. I said to myself "well there's a fair bit of action and there's robots, yes, robots...they're always fun"

Well, as you grow older you grow wiser, and now I see the Legends series for what it is, a pile of shit. I was at least able to derive some enjoyment from reading the House series because it dealt with memorable characters already established by FH. But now in a series populated solely by the "creativity" of BH and KJA, even that was gone. In the entire series there was not one interesting character. The characterization was ridiculously flat. The human characters were made of cardboard. Erasmus had potential that was never fully tapped and the supreme AI Omnius was, well, kinda stupid. I hardly remember anything memorable in the entire series which must have been over 1500 pages. I'm convinced that if it had not been for the "Dune" on the covers, the series would have never seen the light of day.

I didn't even bother getting Hunters and Sandworms, and when I learned that the finale involved the spirit of Norma Cenva's teleportation of Omnius to "another dimension" I'm pretty glad I saved my money.

Well, I'm done with BH and KJA and unless something miraculous happens to their writing ability I'm staying far from Paul of Dune or the Lady Jessica book (what is it? Winds of Dune of something like that) they have planned.

Just had to get that off my chest.

[Andrew]

But now  I hardly remember anything memorable in the entire series which must have been over 1500 pages. I'm convinced that if it had not been for the "Dune" on the covers, the series would have never seen the light of day.

What?

You don't remember that the Harkonnen dude loved Serena Butler? It was mentioned in every paragraph, how could you forget that? ;)

I should check to see if my library has hunters/sandworms, and get them. I got burned too many times buying the legends series (took me 2(?) years to read the final book that I owned)

[freeman]

What?

You don't remember that the Harkonnen dude loved Serena Butler? It was mentioned in every paragraph, how could you forget that? ;)

the only thing I remember about the Harkonnen dude is that his first name started with an X (which is rare) and was more interesting than his personality

I should check to see if my library has hunters/sandworms, and get them. I got burned too many times buying the legends series (took me 2(?) years to read the final book that I owned)

we're gluttons for punishment aren't we

[Dante]

You might be. :P Personally I have vowed for the sake of my health, both mental and physical, never to read those books. The Legends series almost had me gnawing my own arms off in frustration, and from what I hear the sequels aren't much better. Or the weird in-between books for that matter. No, any remaining sickly shred of optimism was killed by the Battle of Corrin, which I couldn't even finish.

Still, it's nice to see another like mind. We're not a 100% majority here, but prevailing opinion seems to be in our favour.

[freeman]

You might be. :P Personally I have vowed for the sake of my health, both mental and physical, never to read those books. The Legends series almost had me gnawing my own arms off in frustration, and from what I hear the sequels aren't much better. Or the weird in-between books for that matter. No, any remaining sickly shred of optimism was killed by the Battle of Corrin, which I couldn't even finish.

Still, it's nice to see another like mind. We're not a 100% majority here, but prevailing opinion seems to be in our favour.

Yes, the Battle of Corrin proved to me definitively that BH and KJA either can't write or are just too lazy to put in an effort when they can just coast on the Dune name.

It was a stupid idea for them to interpret the Butlerian Jihad as a literal war between humans and thinking machines (although that's how it was portrayed in the Lynch film). Machine v. human wars are more the domain of hard sci-fi writers who have the knowledge necessary to adequately handle the details in an intelligent, plausible, realistic manner...the most advanced AI thousands of years in the future can be destroyed by blowing up a few buildings in which it has conveniently housed itself...I mean come on!

Let's hope the 2010 movie will give us something to look forward to.

[Andrew]

I'd say it also makes them look bad that every single year they release a Dune book in September. It's like clockwork. Probably a contract that states so.

Let's look at FH release schedule of his Dune books:

Dune: 1965

Dune Messiah: 1969

CoD: 1976

GEoD: 1981

Heretics: 1984

Chapterhouse: 1985

Notice a pattern? They were not released every single year. Frank Herbert was talented enough to write other books in between the Dune books. He probably took time to think about what to write, and probably no "must release a new dune book every year" mentality.

FH released 6 Dune books in a span of 20 years.

Brian Herbert and the other guy, wrote more than that in a decade (one per year).

[freeman]

I just dug out my copies of the LoD trilogy and all I can say is it's the ultimate example of bland, lazy, "churn one out every year" writing

I browsed the fan fiction section of this forum and some of the RPG threads were more engaging than BH's writing...it's that bad, it really is, AND I just found out by reading Amazon reviews that BH and KJA attempt to pass off the originals as inaccurate in-universe texts written by Irulan, so now they're pretty much free to rewrite whatever they want, that is seriously the last straw 

[MrFlibble]

I was at least able to derive some enjoyment from reading the House series because it dealt with memorable characters already established by FH.

Dealt with in a brutal manner, that is :P

In fact, if you read the House novels carefully, you can find lots of inconsistencies with the original universe (examples). And IMO, the characters are very vaguely connected with those established by FH.

[freeman]

yes but a little entertainment is better than nothing, which is what I got out of the man v. machine series related to Dune only in name

 

[ErasOmnius]

It can be disillusioning.  For every Erasmus or the continuing of Murbella character; there are 5 cookie cutters characters like Omnius the Hater, the new Baron in the Prelude, Alia the Freak, the new Sheenana the Bore, or even the new Duncan who walks into a machine chamber and finds out he's the Ultimate Messiah.

I don't think Winds is going to be that good, and will not sell that many books. Hopefully the last 2 will be about Leto II; or else, even I might call it an Expanded Dune day.

[freeman]

Erasmus was a semi-interesting character, but in the end I believe BH and KJA wasted Erasmus's potential to develop into a truly original and engaging character, I think the sad fact is that BH and KJA aren't talented enough to engage the reader, and as was mentioned, a semi-interesting character in their writing is the exception not the norm with a bunch of bland, faceless characters like vorian, xavier, abulurd, serena, iblis, agamemnon, norma, aurelius etc, etc 

[ErasOmnius]

I hear ya'.  Did BriKev have to ruin the character of Sheeana?  Did they?  Did they have to take one of the most interesting people of 'Heretics', and turn her into a psycho-babble glorified social worker in 'Hunters' and 'Sandworms'? 

Sheeana feels 'bad' that Duncan still pines for Murbella after 18 years on the Ithaca, so she has a one night fling to make him forget that Murbella exists. 26 years on a stand-alone ship, and all Sheeana and Duncan can think of is one night of fun?

Sheeana feels 'bad' that the ghola of Leto II has strange feelings about the worms that are stored in the hold of the Ithaca. Sheeana feels 'bad' later when the Leto II is on Synchrony, Sheeana feels 'bad' when the natives of Qelso kill one of her trusted Bene Gesserit advisors. Sheeana feels 'bad'... blah blah blah.

Whatever happened to the ''bitterness of Sheeana"?

I doubt if Frank ever intended Sheeana to become a Gilligan Islands like social worker for 26 years.

[freeman]

I didn't read Sandworms (thanks the lord) but I hope to god that BH and his buddy didn't actually used the word "bad" to describe how Sheanna felt...

[Dante]

After what they did to the Titans? Anything is possible. 'Here are the survivors of the twenty most brilliant minds of the era. Now watch them die in increasingly stupid ways!' Taking over an empire must have been pretty difficult if they kept waltzing blithely into traps at every turn.

The Titans are my bugbear, yes. Regulars around here will know that.

Edit: Oh yes, I meant to mention.

I browsed the fan fiction section of this forum and some of the RPG threads were more engaging than BH's writing...it's that bad, it really is, AND I just found out by reading Amazon reviews that BH and KJA attempt to pass off the originals as inaccurate in-universe texts written by Irulan, so now they're pretty much free to rewrite whatever they want, that is seriously the last straw

Yes, that's infuriating and all, but what was that about Fanfiction? I meant I know a lot of us are better than BH/KJA (and modest with it), but saying they're as bad as fanfiction is a little insulting to the people who write fanfiction. :P

[freeman]

a lot of Dune fan fiction is quite good...I know how hard it is to pull off decent fan fiction, I've tried albeit not Dune-related, so kudos to those who can do so in as rich a universe as Dune

what I was saying is that the  books by BH and KJA, professional writers with editors at their disposal, are being outdone by casual RPG threads, not even actual stories...come on that's embarrassing lol, I was going through some of those in the fanfiction section and by the third or fourth sentences it was already more engaging than any chapter from Butlerian Jihad

[SandChigger]

What?

You don't remember that the Harkonnen dude loved Serena Butler? It was mentioned in every paragraph, how could you forget that? ;)

Yeah yeah yeah! Remember them making love in the meadow with the horses watching?

Is there a bestial exhibitionism fetish? :P

[Andrew]

Yeah yeah yeah! Remember them making love in the meadow with the horses watching?

Is there a bestial exhibitionism fetish? :P

Wasn't it near a pond or some body of water?

I think they spent an entire chapter on that.

[SandChigger]

I think they spent an entire chapter on that.

Yeah, well, in the new books that's not really saying much, now is it?

All of what, three or four pages at most. :P

I don't remember a body of water ... guess I'll go have a look ... or not, on second thought. :D