missle tanks

[empath]

first i want to prezent my self :  i am a new noob in emperor multiplaying :D

i am playing emperor for some while with the Ai and i am beeting the ai every time but i CAN't win nothing with other players.

i am a harkonen player( lets say i WANT to be )and i have a question.

why doesn't anyone uses missle tanks ??? i used them very often with AI but here i didn't saw a player to use them.

WHY ???????? they are weak or what is the answer?

thx in advance

[mjn4]

if i can do it than i will help u .... there is a problem that my english isnt good. you will say that np for me.... let begin ....

[DelugeD]

Empath, welcome to the board. First I am nothing of a pro but willing to give my 2 cents, I find missile tanks to be very weak compared to Kobra or Minos and the time it takes them to reload is absurd. they have a WEAK defense against Fremen which will just mow them down. I think they are great for use as defense in your base , and thats about it.

[ggom]

Lol.. ok a run down on Harkonnen modern multiplayer.

(Emperor has been around for awhile, but I'm only familiar with its history for the last 2 years)

Hark units have the greatest advantage of brute force. This means armor and firepower superiority in terms of cost and build time. They might not move as fast as Ordos, and aren't as versatile as Atriedes, but in a head on fight in equal numbers and formation, Hark wins easily.

The way the tech tree advancement works for Harkonnen favors mass production of cheap units, because their cheap Buzzsaws and infantry easily win fights against an equal number of enemy units. As long as you keep the threat of a sizeable army of these units, the enemy can't afford to tech. (If they do, kill whatever army they have and camp their spice) And as long as you keep the enemy at the same basic tech level, your unit strength will inevitably swing the game in your favor.

Missile Tanks on the other hand, while instant killing any other combat vehicle they face, and while having reasonable mobility, don't really fall into this excellent harkonnen game plan. As mentioned above, they are alright for protecting your base from air drops, but the FAR CHEAPER trooper is also capable of doing so. And in any case, if you dominate the ground, few opponents will have the skill to simultaneously tech to air AND protect their spice flow.

In a clash of armies, IF your game is going well (meaning the enemy hasn't had the chance to make a bajillion laser tanks or Minotaur) the missile tank isnt worth its hefty $1000. It probably will kill a $300 sand bike, but it will get mowed down quickly, giving you a net loss of $700 unless you are careful about protecting them. It's tactical capabilities are thus of poor value if you are winning. And if you are losing, Missile tanks aren't of the caliber to match up to equally costed Minos or laser tanks. The rare situation does arise when they are favourable, perhpas when your opponent has just begun the tech and has 1 Mino or Kobra, but in such cases, the cheaper and more versatile Assault tank does the job just as well. 

Finally, because of the size of opposing armies, the tier 2 tanks of other houses are useful because of their splash damage. Minos and Kobras wreck havoc in groups to waves of enemy units, and are harder to swamp. The Mtank however, only hits one at a time, and a group of them are fairly vulnerable.

[empath]

thx all for the information...i was playing in defence til i descovered this server :P

now i've learnt how things are rolling here but still i can't manage the early rush :((

and one more question.Does air defence platform helps at anything? i am sorry to bother you all with my noob questions.

btw..ingame nick is: raneaad

thx in advance

[Megashrap]

The Missle Tank is like a fragile missle launcher inside a glass box with wheels. A few inf. can take them out easy if they don't have some sort of support with them. But they can be used for a rush if used right. Still are good to use in a hark mix though.

[ggom]

With regards to Air defence platform, they are slightly overcosted, and are quite easy to kill, even if they do great damage.To date, I have never seen a player make adps when they are winning. Gunships are excellent because they can break the opponent after you control the ground, and have surprise value. ADPs take forever to be a threat, and are easily countered once the enemy sees them drifting towards them.

Their only value in my opinion is a sort of static defense when you're losing bad and are defending. They are very good for stopping Ordos once they are bogged down in ur base, at least till they start massing aa troops and sard elite.

Only Spazelord has won with ADPs, against myself anyway, but Spaze could probably beat me with harkonnen engineers, so that doesn't count.

[alchemi2]

On line play is immensely different to AI play, i kill the AI all the time but often get my ass kicked on line. You have to alter your thinking for on line play.

Only time i really build missile tanks is after the war is won or really early, if you dare to go windtrap, refinery (upgrade), factory (upgrade), refinery (upgrade), windtrap x2.

Build 4 buzz then missile tank then more Buzzes, keep upgrading refs and rush the enemy spice field, the tank will take out carryalls (Purposely target them) and then the harvies quite quick.

Can be very effective but if your opponent expects it your dead meat. so it is a limited tactic.

The best way to learn is through active play on line , learn from the guys out there, watch what they do or actively seek tutoring and learn from the losses.

[Apollyon]

They were only ever really useful in QM games, where you got one to start with to tackle with the other player's starting mino/kobra.

[Gunwounds v2.0]

missile tanks are a nice in a hark mix if sprinkled in sparingly.   Add 1-2 missile tanks to a hark force camping spice and the harvesters will vaporize 10 times faster.  Another good use of the missile tank is to defend your spice from  enemy advanced carryalls attempting to steal and airlift your harvesters from your spicefield.  The missile tank is the cheapest method of instantly stopping the carryall before it actually lands and steals a harv.  A devastator can defend against that as well.... but costs 750 credits more.   4 Elite sardukars can stop a carryall in mid-flight instantly but their combined worth is 500 credits more.  AA troopers cannot stop harvesters from being stolen by carryalls.  Maybe once in a blue moon if the adv carryall gets tangled by something and the troopers gets a lucky shot.  But in this case a missile truck is definitely the way to go. 

Missile trucks are great at killing minos and kobras.  A missile truck can sneak in and kill a mino and sneak out while only sustaining half armor damage.  The trick is to make sure you clear a path with your buzz so that the missile truck has a clear shot.

So in summary:

1.) Missile trucks are good for killing low #'s of minos and kobras

2.) great for base defense vs devastator drops

3.) great to mix in 1-2 for extra harv/carryall  killing power

4.) best way to stop adv carryall harvester stealing

5.) when enemy is hiding in base you can siege their turrets with missile tanks

CONS:  very important.... missile tanks in large groups will WASTE their ammo.  Do not drive 6 missile tanks together in a pack to 1 mino and fire.  All 6 missile tanks will fire all their missiles into the ONE mino.  Thereby wasting 5 loads of missiles.  That is probably the main reason missile tanks are to be used sparingly... due to their high degree of overkill.  If they were designed like sardukar units which actually spread their fire out evenly....then missile tanks would probably be the most badass unit.   Can you imagine 50 missile tanks spreading out all their missiles?  Crap just flying in all directions! ! !

Guns

[Schorpie]

Maybe something usefull to add here:

When you're playing Harkonnen and you take House Ix as subhouse the missle tank can be a bad-ass.

When u build +- 5 Ix Projectors, the missle tank is one of the BEST possible units to make copies of due his great damage and speed. It's destructive vs an army of tanks/harvesters/carryals/... and it doesn't cost you anything to make. Even better: if you copy +- 50 missle tanks and you spread them out around your base and around your projectors you are protected vs. air !

For the rest, I used to like the missle tank allot. Especially vs. atreiders (mino's). Hit and run for the win!  :D

[jeff2429]

I make missile tanks just to showoff.