Bene Gesserit crest

[TagDaze]

So I'm redoing the 1979 boardgame of Dune, by Avalon Hill. It has separate areas on the board for each house. I've got the Atreides hawk, the Harkonnen ram, the Emperor's Lion, the Guild's modified infinity symbol (homemade, weee!), the Fremen crysknife, but I have no logo for the Bene Gesserit.

I figured that Chapterhouse mentions the BG occupying Wallach, and looked it up in the Dune Encyclopedia. It said that House Wallach's crest looks like a snake encircling a book. Very convenient, as I'll just rip the Ordos graphic from one of the Dune videogames.

But a snake curled around a book - Wallach's crest - doesn't really fit the Bene Gesserit.

So what should I use as BG's crest? Any ideas? I can throw together a simple logo myself, if I had an idea. Anything official I can use for this great boardgame?

[Lord J]

The Gom Jabbar!

Seriously though, I think the snake encircling the book is probably the best bet, if you want to remain true to the original intentions of Frank Herbert.  A little peice of me has always felt somewhat cheated by the red-wearing Harkonnen with thier bull symbol in the games, considering that their color is blue, and the Gryffon is thier mascot in the books.

The same goes largely for the Bene Gesserit in the movie/miniseries.  They are usually classified as mind readers, or they have some unearthly deep voice (The Voice), or they can move faster than a camera, none of which is really supported by the books.  The Voice is a matter of specific inflections that act to stimulate the responses of a particular person.  This would mean that they could modulate their voices in a way that provoked a given response, but probably not at the unearthly level you see in the miniseries.  Similarly, the wierding way seems to be a form of moving specific muscles within your body with an awareness of the environment, and your body within the environment.  Although these movements would probably be very fast, it is doubtful that it would be at a level seen in the miniseries.

[TagDaze]

I can forgive the Harkonnen ram symbol because it's their coat of arms, as shown in the Dune Encyclopedia.

Guess I should use the book and snake then, eh?

[Tezcatlipoca]

I can forgive the Harkonnen ram symbol because it's their coat of arms, as shown in the Dune Encyclopedia.

Guess I should use the book and snake then, eh?

As long as you're at peace with it :). From my digging, there is unfortunately no support in the canon (minus the Brain Herbert stuff, assuming you accept that as canon) for that symbol being linked to the Harkonnen. In fact, I would accepted it to be more closely related to the Atreides, as the crest of Leto's father (Leto's being the Hawk, and Pauls being Muad'Dib, the formation on the second moon, or the second moon itself).

[gunner154]

Modify it, for sure. I don't think you'd want Bene Gesserit to be affiliated with the colour green in any way.

[Dante]

The Bene Gesserit are manipulators more than anything else, so if they had a symbol or a motto then it would be carefully chosen to give a certain message or impression. Having said that, they would be unlikely to have one at all. No flag, no coat of arms, no symbol. Even the colour black (alright, 'absence of colour' for all you picky people) is only associated with them because they choose to wear it, not because it is a recognised sign of the BG. Easier to be unobtrusive when you don't have such frippery, and easier to change your face when you don't have one.

Still, whatever you're comfortable with using. Use the snake if you like, though I would be more likely to choose something more ambiguous.

[MrFlibble]

Totally agree with Dante. The Sisterhood is too reclusive to have an obvious symbol. Besides, BG adepts are well trained to recognize their kin without any special marks whatsoever. I'd suggest some motto (possibly in Latin) instead of a symbol. There is a lot of BG-related information, sayings etc. to choose from throughout the books, especially in Heretics and Chapterhouse (obviously).

[TMA_1]

yeah but for the sake of the game, you have to create something.

I like Johnsonius' idea. Use the crest from the Dune Encyclopedia of the snake entwined around an azure book. It definitely looks awesome, and though the azure book is actually a collection of thousands of tomes, it still works as an image that could be seen as "the azure book".

What house was represented by that crest anyways? I totally forgot.

[MrFlibble]

Wallach, the House that had the planet (Wallach IX, if memory serves well) where BG HQ was during the times of Dune/Messiah. Or Ordos, if you mean the games ;)

It still seems somewhat out of place for me to use the Wallach herald for the BGs, as they were never openly affiliated or associated with any particular House. On the other hand, the snake symbol can be appropriate, although I view it (the snake, that is), as a more "masculine" symbol of sorts... I don't know why exactly though ???

[Dante]

Traditionally the snake has (almost) always been a feminine sign, associated with birth, fertility, and rebirth. Also treachery, which was often seen as an inherent female trait. There are exceptions, but almost all mythical or religious mention of snakes can be interpreted in a 'this snake was a woman' context. It's appropriate, but seems a little... unsubtle.

[MrFlibble]

For a reason, I associate a "snake coiled around a book" symbol with some image of an old alchemist with a long gray beard or of a bald Chinese philosopher or something... Well, these are just my own individual associations anyway...

EDIT: It just occured to me that I myself use the EBFD Ordos snake sybol as the forum avatar... and have been using the Dune II Ordos logo (which is identical to the Encyclopedia's Wallach crest) for some time before :D

[gowachin]

I agree that the BG probably wouldn't have a crest... distaste of adornment, and all that.

Here's the idea I have. Instead of trying to explain it, I just did it in Photoshop. Please feel free to use it. If not... no biggie. Hope you like it.

To me, it can represent three things:

The incredible awareness of the BG,

The powers they gain from the spice,

The goal of all sisters to become a Reverend Mother

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Gowachin/BGLogo/photo#5069847602836008770"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/image/Gowachin/Rlu3iJhn70I/AAAAAAAAAG4/7xFblZYtvSo/s800/BGlogo.jpg" /></a>

[Dante]

But at the same time, a big blue eye may be a bit too comical for the BG.

[gowachin]

Yeah, the Bene Gesserit aren't the funniest group around.

I was trying to come up with something clean and simple... using the colors I associate with the BG... blues and black.

Something just didn't sit right with me with the "book and snake" logo. The snake seems evil... and I don't see the BG as evil. I know seeing the snake as evil is a simple, base reaction... must be the old Catholic in me.

Plus, this is for a boardgame. When your piece lands on that image/space... there would be no doubt on what it represents.

[MrFlibble]

How about a more Egyptian-style eye (like this one, perhaps), but more stylized? I first thought that your design is something like a black planet with blue rings, rather than an eye ??? BTW, I have always believed the "blue-in-blue" description of the eyes of Ibad in the books meant that no pupils are visible, and the eye is totally blue.

[gowachin]

Sure... more stylized would be great! When I made it, all I saw was an eye... but I see what you mean. But, an eye/planet, planet/eye might work as well. BTW, I still have the Photoshop file, with it's layers... if anybody wants it.

At first, I thought the Eyes of Ibad were like what they had in the movie and SciFi series. But after reading all the books (Frank's books, that is), I realized that both the iris AND the whites were a deep blue (the "blue-in-blue")... that one wouldn't have a visible distinction between the two.

If the pupils were blue... it would mean that, either the lens was colored opaque blue, or the fluid inside the eyeball was an opaque blue. Basically, we're talking deep blue cataracts. The pupil must be black (or "clear") to let light in.

The Bene Gesserit and the Fremen just wouldn't be the badasses they are, if they were blind!

[MrFlibble]

You're right from the scientific standpoint, but I still find the image of completely blue, probably glowing "eyes like holes" has something uncanny, inhuman/superhuman about it. Something like the faceted metallic Tleilaxu eyes of ghola Duncan.

[TagDaze]

Well, forgive me for committing necrophilia, but I've just remembered this, and I've seen some really nice ideas here. The BGs colour in-game is blue, so it's definitely going to have to be blue. I've been thinking about the eye, but it's a bit... well, out of place. It's kinda confronting, a big eye staring at you from board.

[nampigai]

Actually I think the BG does have a crest

[Egeides]

An eye staring at you from the board would maybe be the view readers have of the BG, but the BG in its universe would actually go the opposite way, oriented towards discrete power.