Dune 2 eXtended Project

[Daelin]

Okay. There's no real "terraining" in Dune II anyway - the terrain is generated from the so-called "seed" values, and you can only add spice fields and spice blooms to it.

This sounds really weird... I'll need to read more about this when I have some time.

I didn't quite understand this. If you're playing the Mercenaries, and have Sardaukar and Ordos AI's on the map, they will both attack you.

Another thing is that you can "switch" between sides during the campaign - e.g. you finish a mission as the Mercenaries, and play the next one as the Ordos. But such switches will require more mission files.

Exactly! You play with one faction or another.

You can fill the regions on the global map with any colors you want, that's no problem. But I still don't get it how you're going to allow the player to choose between the two factions. If it's like I described above (scripted side changes), I think it's a good idea :) In fact, I do like it a lot ;D

Actually... this whole "choice" is pseudo choice. Allied factions have a common border (one territory = one faction! don't interpret too much here, not complicating that much). In mission 7 for example you get to attack in the Sardaukar region, but you can pick between Harkonnen and Sardaukar region. Depending on that you fight either the Harkonnen or the Sardaukar. If you pick Harkonnen, in this case you send the Mercenaries for instance (arrow goes from mercenary land to harkonnen land) and if you attack the sardaukar, you send the ordos (arrow goes from ordos to sardaukar land). As I said, this is more of a pseudo choice, as it does not influence globally the outcome. All territories are taken once victory is achieved. It's just that the player gets to choose whether to play with the ordos or the mercenaries (this idea JUST popped into my mind as I was writing here).

-Daelin

[MrFlibble]

You know what, you actually can have conscious choice of a side. In most missions (2 till 7) you choose one of three (two in mission 8) regions, each of which corresponds to a scenario file. E.g. for mission 2, you have SCEN#002.INI, SCEN#003.INI and SCEN#004.INI. Now in the REGION#.INI file, there's a corresponding section:

[GROUP1]
FRE	=	13, 7, 20, 14, 21, 22
ORD	=	19, 27, 26, 25, 24, 23
HAR	=	6, 5, 4, 10, 3, 9
REG1	=	8, 3, 80, 80
REG2	=	15, 2, 101, 118
REG3	=	23, 3, 152, 136

Regions 1, 2 and 3 correspond to these mission files, for example when you choose REG1, you go to SCEN#002.INI, and so on. This way, you can introduce the House choice, as "switching" between factions is accomplished via setting another House as Human than the one currently used by the player (this is how you can play as the new factions in Super Dune II in the first palce).

Excellent idea, in all aspects. The only drawback that each "switching" mission will have to be duplicated: for instance, if SCENM002.INI switches the player to House Ordos, then you'll need to also have an identical file called SCENO002.INI, or the game will crash with a "No more scenarios!" message every time you try to restart this mission.

[Daelin]

I think no global choices need to be made... in my opinion local choices are splendid for a versatile gameplay. That way for each mission (higher than or equal to 4, for instance), you get to choose which territory to attack. Based on these choices you could get quite a range of possibilities (which will however NOT affect the choices you have to make for the next mission). Example:

Mission 4 - Merc vs Sardaukar OR Merc vs. Harkonnen OR Ordos vs Sardaukar

Mission 5 - Merc vs Atreides OR Ordos vs Atreides OR Ordos vs Fremen

....

And so on... :)

These choices as I said would practically affect ONLY the current stage. This way the gameplay is much better than what we previously had as Ordos vs Atreides for all three stages. Higher versatility, better gameplay, and you actually get to play with all 6 factions (not only 3 and the rest CPU controlled).

And why would you need duplicate missions? Can't you have in a mission the player control the Fremen, and in another one the player control the Atreides? They are all part of the Fremen campaign, afterall... :)

-Daelin

[Nyerguds]

umm... shouldn't the player always play with the same side? Changing the player side switches the entire campaign progress to that side, as far as I remember; it's how the original SD2 worked.

[Daelin]

In that case, I guess duplicate missions are a must... :) But it would be pretty cool to be able to "choose" the side you're playing with on a certain mission.

[Nyerguds]

lol, well you could make parallel Fremen and Atreides campaigns like that. Was that what you meant?

[Daelin]

Okay, look at the attached image (ignoring the land distribution which obviously is not well made at this point and also alliances - we will consider mercenary+atreides alliance on this map - I was a bit too lazy to recolor more of the original image - by MrFlibble btw). We see three possible territories to attack: one harkonnen, and two sardaukar.

From a mercenary land come two arrows... this means that by selecting the destination map of those arrows, you play with the mercenaries. In one map you fight against the harkonnen, while in the other you battle the emperor's troops.

A third possibility is the third arrow going from atreides land to sardaukar territory. In that map you would practically fight as the atreides against the sardaukar.

Note: the alliances would remain the same in the actual game (Hark+Sard, Atr+Fre, Or+Merc)

Hope my idea is clearer now. The problem is how we make the map distribution so all this can be used at a practical level. Of course it would be cool if we could also make land redistribution amongst the allied sides to make the whole distribution planning simpler (example: Atreides and Fremen strategically redistribute their territories).

-Daelin

[Nyerguds]

Not sure if the game supports attacking non-neighbouring areas...

[MrFlibble]

I think no global choices need to be made... in my opinion local choices are splendid for a versatile gameplay. That way for each mission (higher than or equal to 4, for instance), you get to choose which territory to attack. Based on these choices you could get quite a range of possibilities (which will however NOT affect the choices you have to make for the next mission). Example:

Mission 4 - Merc vs Sardaukar OR Merc vs. Harkonnen OR Ordos vs Sardaukar

Mission 5 - Merc vs Atreides OR Ordos vs Atreides OR Ordos vs Fremen

....

And so on... :)

These choices as I said would practically affect ONLY the current stage. This way the gameplay is much better than what we previously had as Ordos vs Atreides for all three stages. Higher versatility, better gameplay, and you actually get to play with all 6 factions (not only 3 and the rest CPU controlled).

These are some very good points. I've been thinking in the same way about this.

Changing the player side switches the entire campaign progress to that side, as far as I remember; it's how the original SD2 worked.

You can always change back in the same way. The obvious use for this is that you can play against the faction you have selected in the beginning of the campaign - using your allies' forces. This can bring some diversity and originality to game play.

However, there should be very careful mission design, as, for example, if you have to select between the Sardaukar and the Harkonnens (with the current tech tree, at least), the latter are a better option simply because they have the Devastator, and the Sardaukar don't.

And why would you need duplicate missions? Can't you have in a mission the player control the Fremen, and in another one the player control the Atreides? They are all part of the Fremen campaign, afterall... :)

It's not the missions themselves that are duplicates, it's the mission files. For example, you choose between SCENM002, which allows you to play as the Mercenaries, and SCENM003, which switches the player to Ordos. Now, you select SCENM003, and play as the Ordos. Consequently, you're now inside the Ordos campaign tree, and if you decide to restart the mission you're playing, the game will look for SCENO003 and not SCENM003. If SCENO003 is absent from the game files, the game will shut down with the "No more scenarios!" message.

Not sure if the game supports attacking non-neighbouring areas...

It doesn't matter whether the areas are neighbouring or not. In REGION#.INI, you only define the region number (see attached image for reference), the type of the arrow graphics, and its position on the screen (x,y coordinates like those for the Mentat facial animations). As for the "conquered" territories, you can define any territories that will be colored in each side's colors for the current map update.

BTW, I have checked the issue with the Carryalls being attacked by Turrets, and it seems to be a feature unique to the European version of Dune II, which is currently used by DuneX. I have no idea if this was done on purpose (to increase difficulty), or the developers just screwed up some code.

There's another idea concerning the AI and difficulty levels. The two different Vehicle Factories are, in my opinion, a very nice asset to play around with. For example, the Mercenaries don't have Siege Tanks, but, by pre-placing Sardaukar/Harkonnen Factories for the Mercenaries and enabling the Siege Tanks in the Mercenary tech tree will allow the Mercenary AI to build these units, while the player won't have such ability. Int he same way, you can have the Ordos building Deviators and Devastators, or Harkonnens with Devastators and Sonic Tanks (could work as some good plot device).

[Daelin]

However, there should be very careful mission design, as, for example, if you have to select between the Sardaukar and the Harkonnens (with the current tech tree, at least), the latter are a better option simply because they have the Devastator, and the Sardaukar don't.

Who's up for a challenge? I mean, players who love the game will seek a challenge and not replay the mod the "easiest way"... It was the same for the original game. I started with Harkonnen, then Atreides, and in the end Ordos (which are more difficult because they lack launchers or useful superweapon - saboteurs suck). So in my opinions this is also up to the player... And if we balance the gameplay well enough, the devastator won't matter that much anymore. I still need to explore the techtree more... I'm sure we can make it different to the siege tank, but not necessarily stronger.

There's another idea concerning the AI and difficulty levels. The two different Vehicle Factories are, in my opinion, a very nice asset to play around with. For example, the Mercenaries don't have Siege Tanks, but, by pre-placing Sardaukar/Harkonnen Factories for the Mercenaries and enabling the Siege Tanks in the Mercenary tech tree will allow the Mercenary AI to build these units, while the player won't have such ability. Int he same way, you can have the Ordos building Deviators and Devastators, or Harkonnens with Devastators and Sonic Tanks (could work as some good plot device).

I don't think we will have such problems after we rebalance the techtrees... we can worry about this later anyway. The important this is to be able to implement these ideas "at hand"... not have to mess up with a lot of bits, do more deassembly and figure complicated things out.

-Daelin

[MrFlibble]

And if we balance the gameplay well enough, the devastator won't matter that much anymore. I still need to explore the techtree more... I'm sure we can make it different to the siege tank, but not necessarily stronger.

I'm waiting for more ideas on this ;)

I don't think we will have such problems after we rebalance the techtrees... we can worry about this later anyway. The important this is to be able to implement these ideas "at hand"... not have to mess up with a lot of bits, do more deassembly and figure complicated things out.

Well, it's just some theoretical possibility one can explore. Even if Mercenaries with Siege Tanks won't be necessary, a mission built around the "stolen tech" scenario is something to take into account IMO :)

[Daelin]

I'm waiting for more ideas on this ;)

Still need to hack more of those bits using Nyergud's to make this possible... coming up with new modification ideas... I am thinking about giving devastator's for instance a randomizing factor too. ^^ But all this will come as "ideas" here after I am satisfied with the number of fields filled in the editor. Nevertheless, I do not start to uselessly implement anything without your approval.

Well, it's just some theoretical possibility one can explore. Even if Mercenaries with Siege Tanks won't be necessary, a mission built around the "stolen tech" scenario is something to take into account IMO :)

Definitely! Here I have to agree with you. All such possibilities need to be taken into account. Keep in mind that Westwood actually did this with the Atreides, giving them in the final missions the more useful Troopers rather than the puny useless Infantry. If they can do it... so can we >:)

-Daelin

[MrFlibble]

Keep in mind that Westwood actually did this with the Atreides, giving them in the final missions the more useful Troopers rather than the puny useless Infantry.

I've always thought it was a mistake, coming from the fact that many missions were "recycled" for different Houses. The same way, the Atreides AI sometimes gets a WOR, even though the Atreides can't build Troopers from it.

[Daelin]

You see, I actually think the WOR bug comes from the fact that the Atreides CANNOT build the troopers, not that they have a WOR. I find that the WOR was placed on the map just to make things more difficult. I may of course be wrong about it... we will never know what Westwood had in mind. I personally think that the Atreides should be capable to build troopers if they, for instance, steal a WOR from an enemy Harkonnen, let's say.

-Daelin

[Nyerguds]

BTW, I have checked the issue with the Carryalls being attacked by Turrets, and it seems to be a feature unique to the European version of Dune II, which is currently used by DuneX. I have no idea if this was done on purpose (to increase difficulty), or the developers just screwed up some code

Hmm... C&C has a Can't Be Attacked tag for aircraft so the Nod airstrip transports can't be shot down. This actualy makes sure units can't attack them... maybe Dune II has a similar unit option?

[MrFlibble]

You see, I actually think the WOR bug comes from the fact that the Atreides CANNOT build the troopers, not that they have a WOR.

Exactly, they can't build Troopers from the WOR because Troopers are disabled for the Atreides.

I find that the WOR was placed on the map just to make things more difficult. I may of course be wrong about it... we will never know what Westwood had in mind.

Judging by the fact that the final mission is identical for the Atreides and Ordos, and the Harkonnen final mission has only minor differences from the other versions, I think they just plain forgot to change some things, like give the Atreides the Barracks instead of a WOR.

There are, in fact, quite a few errors and leftovers in the original Dune II mission files.

I personally think that the Atreides should be capable to build troopers if they, for instance, steal a WOR from an enemy Harkonnen, let's say.

WOR is one of the structures that cannot be captured by infantry. Even if the Atreides capture a Harkonnen Const. Yard, they still won't be able to build WOR structures.

Hmm... C&C has a Can't Be Attacked tag for aircraft so the Nod airstrip transports can't be shot down. This actualy makes sure units can't attack them... maybe Dune II has a similar unit option?

I have checked if the Carryall stats are different in the EU and other versions with your editor, and there appear to be no differences. Also, BUILD.EMC and UNIT.EMC are identical in all v1.07 releases.

[Talhydras]

I know this is very much off the current topic of conversation (I'm sorry!) but I was curious if there's a way to easily jump to a specific campaign mission?

The first few missions for the new factions are all quite fun, but I've played them many times and I won't be able to get at the advanced tech trees without going through 'em. A way to quickly jump to the middle of the campaign would be ever so handy... thanks!

[Nyerguds]

Savegame packs, I guess. PRoblem with Dune II is that all savegames need consecutive numbers. If one in the row is missing, it stops trying to read the next ones.

[MrFlibble]

I know this is very much off the current topic of conversation (I'm sorry!) but I was curious if there's a way to easily jump to a specific campaign mission?

You can use the Super Dune II Savegame Pack. The savegames there are sorted in separate folders for each faction. Just rename all the savegame files from _SD2-*.DAT to _D2EX*.DAT.

[Daelin]

Long time no posts and it's a shame to see no progress in this project. I will begin working on the tech-tree these days (momentarily separating units, special characteristics and so on - it would be useless to do more at this point).

I was wondering about another thing though: can mission briefs be separated/map or are they the same for every level/house? :) just out of curiosity, because if we planned more complex missions that would select the race depending on the territory, it would be idea to have a different brief depending on the map. Just wondering...

[MrFlibble]

Long time no posts and it's a shame to see no progress in this project.

I've been pretty busy with other stuff lately, and besides, there aren't enough major changes implemented yet to make for an update.

I will begin working on the tech-tree these days (momentarily separating units, special characteristics and so on - it would be useless to do more at this point).

Good. I'm awaiting full report on this :)

I was wondering about another thing though: can mission briefs be separated/map or are they the same for every level/house? :) just out of curiosity, because if we planned more complex missions that would select the race depending on the territory, it would be idea to have a different brief depending on the map. Just wondering...

Each House/side has a separate set of mission briefings, stored in the TEXT#.ENG(/GER/FRA) string files. However, each variant of a mission uses the same briefing, so you can't make different mission objectives for two separate choices of the same level. So the only way to circumvent this is to actually assign one or more mission choices to another House.

[MrFlibble]

This one is a relatively big update, with lots of changes. I have reworked quite a few things in the tech trees, balance and (hopefully) playing strategies. I've backtracked to the original tech layout for the vehicles, meaning that the Light Factory is back producing the wheeled vehicles (it was very difficult to balance the one-factory tech tree, because in the Sega version the Vehicle Factory has more upgrades than any factory in the PC version, simply allowing to replace the construction of a Heavy Factory with an upgrade). The Mercenaries are now only able to purchase heavy vehicles and aircraft from the Starport (I've made sure they won't get an "out of stock" situation), and the Sardaukar have all the heavy units but can't repair them. The Fremen have the bonus of rare sandworm encounters in most missions and non-decaying structures, but can't produce combat and heavy tanks (they can only buy them from the Starport in limited quantities).

Here's a complete list of changes:

• Fremen Warrior hit points increased from 45 to 50.
  
• Fremen Warriors hit points increased from 110 to 115.
  
• Trikes and Quads are again produced in the Light Factory.
  
• Light Factory is now available to the Mercenaries and the Fremen.
  
• Heavy Factory upgrade levels now work as follows: UpgLvl0=Tank, Harvester; UpgLvl1=MCV; UpgLvl2=Launcher; UpgLvl3=Siege Tank, Sonic Tank.
  
• Heavy Factory is no longer available to the Mercenaries.
  
• Combat Tanks and Siege Tanks are no longer available to the Fremen.
  
• Rocket Launchers are now available to the Fremen.
  
• Repair Facility now requires the Light Factory to be built first.
  
• Repair Facility is available starting from mission 5.
  
• Repair Facility is no longer available to the Sardaukar.
  
• High-Tech Factory is no longer available to the Mercenaries.
  
• Rocket Turrets are now available starting from mission 7.
  
• Starport is no longer available to the Sardaukar.
  
• Starport deliveries for the Mercenaries take half the normal time.
  
• Sonic Tanks, Devastators, Deviators and Ornithopters again require a House of Ix to be built.
  
• House of Ix is now available to the Fremen.
  
• Starport is no longer required to construct a Palace. In order to build a Palace, an Outpost and a House of WOR must be constructed first.
  
• Sardaukar Cluster Missile recharge time reduced from 600 to 300.
  
• Fremen buildings no longer "decay" from weather conditions.
  
• All missions have been modified to reflect the tech tree changes.
  
• Missions 6 and 7 for all sides now have two CPU opponents instead of one.
  
• Sandworms are made more rare and less aggressive in the Fremen campaign.
  
• The Mercenary player gets a +500 credits bonus at the start of each mission.
  
• Quantity of each unit type in stock available at the Starport for the Mercenary player set to 25 in all Mercenary missions.
  
• Mercenaries can no longer buy House special tanks from the Starport on mission 9.
  
• Fixed the issue when upgrading the Construction Yard on mission 3 would not allow to build large concrete slabs.
  
• Saved games fro all campaigns are now included in the Demo package.
  

I'd like to thank Daelin for lots of feedback and suggestions that helped me with development of this Demo release.

NOTE: Since I've changed many things in this release, including some file names, it is recommended that you remove any previous version of the DuneX you might have before installing the current one.

[Nyerguds]

• Starport is no longer required to construct a Palace. In order to build a Palace, an Outpost and a House of WOR must be constructed first.
  

...House of WOR?

[MrFlibble]

If you have a windtrap then build a House of WOR structure in order to produce troopers. I would do so to provide a greater defense for your harvesting operation.

[Nyerguds]

I know a "House of IX" and a "WOR Trooper Barracks", but "House of WOR" sounds ridiculous, tbh...